1 00:00:04,370 --> 00:00:02,600 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:05,570 --> 00:00:04,380 triangle you know there's explanation 3 00:00:09,140 --> 00:00:05,580 for everything that occurred in the 4 00:00:12,230 --> 00:00:09,150 Rendlesham forest incident it was 5 00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:12,240 completely silent it comes right over 6 00:00:19,970 --> 00:00:18,529 mr. Cleary he turned up hurts my father 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:19,980 and held his hand and he looked in his 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:28,609 welcome to podcast UFO for our live show 9 00:00:33,260 --> 00:00:31,050 we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m. 10 00:00:35,750 --> 00:00:33,270 Eastern Standard Time on the dark matter 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:35,760 radio network please remember to visit 12 00:00:42,619 --> 00:00:39,450 the website podcast UFO calm for past 13 00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:42,629 episodes blogs and forums during the 14 00:00:47,119 --> 00:00:44,640 show feel free to participate live in 15 00:00:49,250 --> 00:00:47,129 our chat room and don't forget to Like 16 00:00:51,709 --> 00:00:49,260 us on our very active Facebook page 17 00:00:55,189 --> 00:00:51,719 hello and welcome to the show 18 00:00:57,830 --> 00:00:55,199 I'm Martyn Willis your host and tonight 19 00:01:00,470 --> 00:00:57,840 we have Cheryl Kosta coming up we're 20 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:00,480 gonna be talking about early UFOs which 21 00:01:05,149 --> 00:01:02,250 is always kind of interesting to me 22 00:01:07,210 --> 00:01:05,159 being kind of a history all I don't want 23 00:01:11,359 --> 00:01:07,220 to say buff but kind of a history fan 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:11,369 and so I'm looking forward to that for 25 00:01:15,679 --> 00:01:13,170 that we have Alejandro Rojas coming up 26 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:15,689 with the news but I wanted to announce 27 00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:18,810 we have a winner for the t-shirt graphic 28 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:21,270 contest we had four different people 29 00:01:28,039 --> 00:01:24,930 enter five different graphics and if you 30 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:28,049 look on our page number two from Diane 31 00:01:34,130 --> 00:01:31,950 cash is the hands-down winner beautiful 32 00:01:37,580 --> 00:01:34,140 graphic and she's the same one that made 33 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:37,590 the banner for our website podcast UFO 34 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:39,810 calm I want to thank everyone for 35 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:41,850 supporting the show and you can do that 36 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:44,970 just by going on our website and all 37 00:01:50,389 --> 00:01:48,450 that informations right there and we 38 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:50,399 have some exciting guests coming up just 39 00:01:56,359 --> 00:01:53,310 a little heads up we have Jann Harrison 40 00:02:00,819 --> 00:01:56,369 coming up December 2nd of he is the 41 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:00,829 executive director of MUFON we also have 42 00:02:05,420 --> 00:02:03,570 someone I've been trying to get on the 43 00:02:08,690 --> 00:02:05,430 show for a long time I had some help and 44 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:08,700 that's James Fox finally I've actually 45 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:10,730 tried to get him on almost since day one 46 00:02:13,390 --> 00:02:12,930 he's going to be on the show on just 47 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:13,400 some 48 00:02:19,670 --> 00:02:17,370 416 and next week I have Michael Luke 49 00:02:21,589 --> 00:02:19,680 who I used to do the news with we always 50 00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:21,599 have a lot of fun he's my guest for the 51 00:02:29,150 --> 00:02:26,760 entire show but not of course Alejandro 52 00:02:30,530 --> 00:02:29,160 will be here right Alejandro right 53 00:02:33,260 --> 00:02:30,540 that's good 54 00:02:36,550 --> 00:02:33,270 I'm glad how are you Alejandro I'm good 55 00:02:40,970 --> 00:02:36,560 so is this like do I get a start talking 56 00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:40,980 okay yeah that was an awkward segue it 57 00:02:46,729 --> 00:02:44,310 really was I do so awkward pretty well 58 00:02:48,380 --> 00:02:46,739 you know that I got to hang out with 59 00:02:50,180 --> 00:02:48,390 James Fox just a couple weeks ago 60 00:02:52,670 --> 00:02:50,190 because he came to the Travis Walton 61 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:52,680 event and he I gave him a ride you know 62 00:02:59,059 --> 00:02:55,110 a couple hours from there to the airport 63 00:03:02,900 --> 00:02:59,069 I've known him for a while and he is so 64 00:03:05,479 --> 00:03:02,910 fun and he's got so many interesting 65 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:05,489 stories he's great 66 00:03:11,690 --> 00:03:08,310 really excited to have him on and I had 67 00:03:14,210 --> 00:03:11,700 some help and someone that just really 68 00:03:18,710 --> 00:03:14,220 just wouldn't let go and he finally said 69 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:18,720 yes cool so yeah looking forward to that 70 00:03:27,590 --> 00:03:23,090 so the girl the lady who won for the art 71 00:03:30,259 --> 00:03:27,600 contest is the same one nope that's Big 72 00:03:32,660 --> 00:03:30,269 Ben do you hear big bag - are you in 73 00:03:35,509 --> 00:03:32,670 London now actually it's a doorbell 74 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:35,519 which never works and it works of course 75 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:39,690 only when we're recording here but she's 76 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:41,040 the one who did the banner for your 77 00:03:46,569 --> 00:03:44,250 website yes because that is so cool is 78 00:03:48,319 --> 00:03:46,579 that a particular sighting that is 79 00:03:51,979 --> 00:03:48,329 depicting where there's like this 80 00:03:55,789 --> 00:03:51,989 v-shaped you know UFO there no I just 81 00:03:58,729 --> 00:03:55,799 told her I I just told her kind of an 82 00:04:01,759 --> 00:03:58,739 idea of what I liked and you know she 83 00:04:03,410 --> 00:04:01,769 said she surprised me and I said 84 00:04:06,199 --> 00:04:03,420 something you know early evening 85 00:04:09,020 --> 00:04:06,209 Twilight something and she just sent me 86 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:09,030 that graphic along with another one the 87 00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:10,489 other one I have on our Facebook page 88 00:04:15,830 --> 00:04:13,680 but this was that banner for the website 89 00:04:19,129 --> 00:04:15,840 I thought it was pretty awesome it's 90 00:04:20,810 --> 00:04:19,139 very awesome super cool yeah I love it 91 00:04:24,409 --> 00:04:20,820 yeah she's very talented I'll say yeah 92 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:24,419 very so we got some news do we we do 93 00:04:29,930 --> 00:04:25,770 that some new 94 00:04:31,999 --> 00:04:29,940 so here's a couple pieces of news the 95 00:04:34,820 --> 00:04:32,009 first one is a sighting in El Salvador 96 00:04:36,740 --> 00:04:34,830 it's a sphere shaped UFO that this guy 97 00:04:41,779 --> 00:04:36,750 took pictures of and videotaped on 98 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:41,789 October 29 to 2014 it was 537 p.m. when 99 00:04:46,939 --> 00:04:44,130 he saw this object and started taking 100 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:46,949 some pictures and video the reason why 101 00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:49,050 it's posted now is because now it's been 102 00:04:54,620 --> 00:04:51,150 investigated and the director of 103 00:04:58,700 --> 00:04:54,630 Investigations for move on Chuck Reaver 104 00:05:02,540 --> 00:04:58,710 closed the case as an unknown now in the 105 00:05:04,490 --> 00:05:02,550 pictures in the video I guess they're 106 00:05:08,210 --> 00:05:04,500 all of the same sighting but and the 107 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:08,220 object looks very spherical hmm 108 00:05:13,580 --> 00:05:11,130 you don't hear that too often you know 109 00:05:16,370 --> 00:05:13,590 other than the orbs that video is right 110 00:05:18,860 --> 00:05:16,380 up on our website I did embed that as 111 00:05:20,629 --> 00:05:18,870 well and the show note links by the way 112 00:05:24,159 --> 00:05:20,639 you can click on them and they'll go to 113 00:05:28,879 --> 00:05:24,169 the full stories over at open minds TV 114 00:05:32,770 --> 00:05:28,889 so what else is happening what else this 115 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:32,780 is a cool sighting this one happened 116 00:05:36,529 --> 00:05:35,130 there was no date I don't think on this 117 00:05:41,659 --> 00:05:36,539 one but I'm pretty sure that this was 118 00:05:45,469 --> 00:05:41,669 this year but this is a guy who stopped 119 00:05:46,999 --> 00:05:45,479 at a Dairy Queen and they looked out of 120 00:05:50,180 --> 00:05:47,009 their window on the way home and they 121 00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:50,190 saw this a bright light and they didn't 122 00:05:54,830 --> 00:05:52,889 know what it was it got closer and they 123 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:54,840 noticed it had these big windows at 124 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:56,250 first they thought it was a jet but then 125 00:06:00,680 --> 00:05:57,810 they thought well the windows are too 126 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:00,690 big and they were able to see people 127 00:06:07,610 --> 00:06:04,650 inside and this thing was huge and they 128 00:06:10,879 --> 00:06:07,620 notice it was not like a jet it was some 129 00:06:13,129 --> 00:06:10,889 kind of UFO with these creatures or 130 00:06:16,129 --> 00:06:13,139 something inside they don't describe 131 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:16,139 what these beings look like inside but 132 00:06:20,270 --> 00:06:18,330 they could see people in there the way 133 00:06:23,719 --> 00:06:20,280 they drawn they look sort of humanoid 134 00:06:27,230 --> 00:06:23,729 with a head and a torso type of thing 135 00:06:29,809 --> 00:06:27,240 but and then the object quickly took off 136 00:06:34,490 --> 00:06:29,819 in another direction yeah that is really 137 00:06:36,470 --> 00:06:34,500 interesting and I wonder if anyone has 138 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:36,480 investigated that and 139 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:40,050 gone into detail with what the creatures 140 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:42,510 whatever they were look like yeah maybe 141 00:06:47,780 --> 00:06:44,400 we'll hear more about this one this one 142 00:06:49,790 --> 00:06:47,790 was recently posted or reported to move 143 00:06:52,250 --> 00:06:49,800 on although it's still under 144 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:52,260 investigation so Roger Marsh the 145 00:06:56,540 --> 00:06:53,910 director of communications from MUFON 146 00:06:58,930 --> 00:06:56,550 wrote this story and he says that this 147 00:07:02,660 --> 00:06:58,940 one's still under investigation 148 00:07:04,820 --> 00:07:02,670 yep you know these sightings when now 149 00:07:06,770 --> 00:07:04,830 that's weird that it had big you know 150 00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:06,780 rectangular windows I mean that's just 151 00:07:13,190 --> 00:07:08,700 yeah that's almost like an observation 152 00:07:15,740 --> 00:07:13,200 deck and you know like which you know 153 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:15,750 does make me think what it what is it 154 00:07:19,870 --> 00:07:17,370 they're traveling back in time for look 155 00:07:23,810 --> 00:07:19,880 at some event that didn't happen or or 156 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:23,820 yeah you know or you know if it is 157 00:07:28,850 --> 00:07:26,310 extraterrestrial I never like to say it 158 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:28,860 is but if it is did it come out of a 159 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:30,210 mother ship and then they're just 160 00:07:35,210 --> 00:07:33,510 floating around observing you know well 161 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:35,220 that Betty and Barney Hill case you know 162 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:36,810 they said they saw this object with 163 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:38,930 Windows and they saw the people inside 164 00:07:46,060 --> 00:07:42,050 and there's been a few other cases 165 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:46,070 there's a turkey video right and and 166 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:50,850 although you know I that might be 167 00:07:56,930 --> 00:07:54,090 there's some research unfortunately that 168 00:07:59,390 --> 00:07:56,940 well we're better where seems to maybe 169 00:08:03,260 --> 00:07:59,400 explain the turkey video that it's 170 00:08:05,990 --> 00:08:03,270 actually a reflection of the lens the 171 00:08:09,230 --> 00:08:06,000 curvature inside the lens and they've 172 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:09,240 been able to demonstrate similar effects 173 00:08:16,430 --> 00:08:12,690 that have happened before with this sort 174 00:08:19,220 --> 00:08:16,440 of thing so I'm still trying to to do 175 00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:19,230 more work into that but actually Frank 176 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:19,710 Warren 177 00:08:25,670 --> 00:08:22,650 of UFO Chronicles has some stuff posted 178 00:08:27,290 --> 00:08:25,680 on that but some people feel that 179 00:08:28,970 --> 00:08:27,300 there's a window there with some 180 00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:28,980 creatures that you could see and they're 181 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:30,630 there some people even feel that they're 182 00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:32,490 over a body and in fact and he's 183 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:34,640 completely serious my boss feels that 184 00:08:40,190 --> 00:08:37,290 that these things are eating so they're 185 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:40,200 kind of enjoying sucking the juices out 186 00:08:47,510 --> 00:08:43,730 of a human while they're looking out and 187 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:47,520 the Turkish shoreline enjoying the 188 00:08:50,970 --> 00:08:49,930 beautiful view or something so 189 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:50,980 you know if that was some type of 190 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:53,170 reflection now I've looked at a lot of 191 00:09:01,260 --> 00:08:57,130 images stills from those videos and me 192 00:09:03,269 --> 00:09:01,270 too you know Roger Leir actually did 193 00:09:07,139 --> 00:09:03,279 some filming - mm-hmm 194 00:09:09,660 --> 00:09:07,149 but it really they look just like heads 195 00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:09,670 you know I mean it would be to be a 196 00:09:13,139 --> 00:09:11,620 reflection there's two heads and then 197 00:09:16,290 --> 00:09:13,149 there's one time where there's one 198 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:16,300 single well I don't know I don't think 199 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:18,310 they I don't think they look like heads 200 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:21,910 to me I mean they're round objects there 201 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:23,770 are round kind of but you got to 202 00:09:30,180 --> 00:09:27,610 remember these things if you took the 203 00:09:32,790 --> 00:09:30,190 originals and you zoom in there has been 204 00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:32,800 some like fiddling with the pictures to 205 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:34,480 try to determine what they are but that 206 00:09:40,740 --> 00:09:38,560 doesn't necessarily accurately display 207 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:40,750 what they are I mean these methods that 208 00:09:46,139 --> 00:09:44,470 are used for that sort of thing and you 209 00:09:48,750 --> 00:09:46,149 know there could be inside of this 210 00:09:52,889 --> 00:09:48,760 crevice any kind of and what's what's 211 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:52,899 unfortunate is that the lenses I keep 212 00:09:57,180 --> 00:09:54,490 saying unfortunate because it's such a 213 00:09:58,019 --> 00:09:57,190 good case and I'm afraid that maybe they 214 00:10:00,480 --> 00:09:58,029 figured it out 215 00:10:02,519 --> 00:10:00,490 is that inside of the lenses in the 216 00:10:06,750 --> 00:10:02,529 Rings that hold like the lenses and 217 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:06,760 stuff there are notches and this notch 218 00:10:13,230 --> 00:10:11,650 looks like one of those no so that's a 219 00:10:16,650 --> 00:10:13,240 actually see a light though that they 220 00:10:19,949 --> 00:10:16,660 focused on yeah but I mean that's the 221 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:19,959 whole point is that it's a single point 222 00:10:26,060 --> 00:10:23,410 of light a star or a planet that when 223 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:26,070 they zoom in on it with this lens 224 00:10:31,650 --> 00:10:29,110 there's a reflection inside of the lens 225 00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:31,660 that causes this anomaly but didn't 226 00:10:37,980 --> 00:10:34,150 there wasn't there multiple filming and 227 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:37,990 different hours just one camera just one 228 00:10:44,310 --> 00:10:39,810 camera even though it was several times 229 00:10:46,139 --> 00:10:44,320 correct one camera and that's why people 230 00:10:47,550 --> 00:10:46,149 at first thought you know maybe it was a 231 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:47,560 star or something but that didn't pan 232 00:10:51,930 --> 00:10:49,810 out because it didn't look like one but 233 00:10:53,490 --> 00:10:51,940 maybe it is a reflection of that start 234 00:10:58,319 --> 00:10:53,500 because it was the same time every day 235 00:11:00,690 --> 00:10:58,329 and it was but it was up in the air 236 00:11:02,850 --> 00:11:00,700 that's what blows away the I think blows 237 00:11:03,540 --> 00:11:02,860 away the theory that this was the top of 238 00:11:36,329 --> 00:11:03,550 a 239 00:11:39,810 --> 00:11:36,339 reflection of of the inside workings of 240 00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,820 the lens itself well I'd like to keep up 241 00:11:45,329 --> 00:11:41,440 on that I'd like to find out if yeah 242 00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:45,339 going back to humanoid-type noted in 243 00:11:49,170 --> 00:11:47,769 crafts there was some case other than 244 00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:49,180 you know there was a Fothergill case 245 00:11:54,329 --> 00:11:51,040 where they're standing on top of the 246 00:11:57,060 --> 00:11:54,339 craft there was another case that 247 00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,070 someone was describing one time where 248 00:12:01,199 --> 00:11:59,680 they were in a car and this craft came 249 00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:01,209 over and they could see the beings and 250 00:12:08,610 --> 00:12:06,160 the guy waved and they waved back which 251 00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,620 is really another thing like you know 252 00:12:12,510 --> 00:12:10,720 the father Gill case yeah I don't think 253 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:12,520 I remember that case er I don't know 254 00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:13,990 that I'm aware of that one yeah I'd like 255 00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:16,990 to look that one up and yeah there's 256 00:12:21,510 --> 00:12:19,270 something I read you know it's just 257 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:21,520 those type of cases are really 258 00:12:26,190 --> 00:12:24,370 fascinating to me because it really gets 259 00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:26,200 you wondering if it's you know if 260 00:12:30,810 --> 00:12:27,880 there's actually some type of being in 261 00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:30,820 there well one of the best humanoid 262 00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:33,670 cases and here's you know I told you I 263 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:35,680 was going to give you a couple announced 264 00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:38,050 or an announcement yeah and I actually 265 00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:41,320 have a couple things and you said you 266 00:12:46,829 --> 00:12:43,870 didn't want to know what it was but it 267 00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:46,839 has to do with this Boyle that I've got 268 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:48,820 I wanted to ask you about that's why I 269 00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:50,890 want to catch you off air but since you 270 00:12:59,010 --> 00:12:55,500 wanted me to say that no I'm kidding 271 00:13:01,829 --> 00:12:59,020 No one of the announcements is that one 272 00:13:04,829 --> 00:13:01,839 of the best humanoid cases is the rule I 273 00:13:06,509 --> 00:13:04,839 case right the aerial school where these 274 00:13:10,530 --> 00:13:06,519 kids we're gonna have one of the 275 00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:10,540 witnesses Oh at the UFO Congress I'm so 276 00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:12,430 excited about it I've met her she's come 277 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:15,820 into the office she's really shy she 278 00:13:19,079 --> 00:13:17,410 actually did get on the airport 279 00:13:20,699 --> 00:13:19,089 a couple minutes when I was doing an 280 00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:20,709 interview with her friend who came with 281 00:13:25,769 --> 00:13:21,040 her 282 00:13:26,850 --> 00:13:25,779 in Canada so but they're gonna come and 283 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:26,860 she's going to come and talk and what's 284 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:29,170 great is she has this artwork that she's 285 00:13:32,699 --> 00:13:30,910 been doing that is inspired by the 286 00:13:35,129 --> 00:13:32,709 experience that she feels is even 287 00:13:37,769 --> 00:13:35,139 influenced by her experience so it's 288 00:13:39,809 --> 00:13:37,779 going to be super interesting but here's 289 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:39,819 the other big announcement this is a 290 00:13:47,579 --> 00:13:43,569 really big one that I'm announcing in 291 00:13:49,230 --> 00:13:47,589 the works to working out the 292 00:13:50,579 --> 00:13:49,240 announcement and it's going to be 293 00:13:53,819 --> 00:13:50,589 announced the first time right here 294 00:13:56,189 --> 00:13:53,829 alright Joe that is that we're going to 295 00:13:58,579 --> 00:13:56,199 have another one of the first 296 00:14:01,579 --> 00:13:58,589 researchers are one of the greatest 297 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:01,589 credible researchers of humanoid cases 298 00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:03,610 from way back when 299 00:14:08,490 --> 00:14:05,800 really yeah who do you think that might 300 00:14:13,439 --> 00:14:08,500 be oh my gosh you're putting me on the 301 00:14:14,850 --> 00:14:13,449 spot I'm going to say I don't want to 302 00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:14,860 guess wrong so go ahead and tell me 303 00:14:21,569 --> 00:14:19,120 oh it is Jacques Vallee 304 00:14:23,490 --> 00:14:21,579 are you kidding yeah I think it's the 305 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:23,500 first time he's ever really done a UFO 306 00:14:28,939 --> 00:14:25,630 conference he's definitely hasn't done 307 00:14:31,139 --> 00:14:28,949 anything like this for decades he is 308 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:31,149 friends with Lee Spiegel and they met 309 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:33,250 back in the 70s when Lee Spiegel 310 00:14:38,189 --> 00:14:37,050 organized this UN event for sir Eric 311 00:14:40,980 --> 00:14:38,199 gairy 312 00:14:45,210 --> 00:14:40,990 of oh man I can't remember the country 313 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:45,220 right-o Grenada and Eric gairy was into 314 00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:47,350 UFOs and he was pushing to get the UN to 315 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:49,600 investigate UFOs and so Lee Spiegel 316 00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:51,970 organized his presentation to the UN for 317 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:54,399 him right these Spiegel who now works 318 00:14:57,660 --> 00:14:56,290 for The Huffington Post and so he 319 00:15:00,269 --> 00:14:57,670 brought all of these credible people 320 00:15:02,610 --> 00:15:00,279 Jacques Vallee being one of them 321 00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:02,620 and so they've talked over the years and 322 00:15:07,379 --> 00:15:05,110 I've been trying to get I've gotten one 323 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:07,389 interview with Jacques Vallee over his 324 00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:09,730 great book wonders in the sky well and 325 00:15:14,369 --> 00:15:12,160 finally hard to really hard to nail down 326 00:15:16,379 --> 00:15:14,379 and get a hold of I'm trying to get all 327 00:15:18,119 --> 00:15:16,389 of them for two years yeah and I've 328 00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:18,129 asked him several times now that I've 329 00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:20,860 had the contact if he would speak at the 330 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:22,959 Congress he says no I just don't do that 331 00:15:26,460 --> 00:15:24,970 sort of thing and he's told me this for 332 00:15:28,110 --> 00:15:26,470 years even when I was with MUFON we 333 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:28,120 tried and he's just says no I don't do 334 00:15:31,530 --> 00:15:30,070 UFO conferences 335 00:15:33,930 --> 00:15:31,540 well Lee Spiegel just for the hell of it 336 00:15:36,509 --> 00:15:33,940 said what would you come to the UFO 337 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:36,519 Congress if I interviewed you on stage 338 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:39,490 and Jacque said you know what that's 339 00:15:45,090 --> 00:15:41,769 something I would like to do oh my god 340 00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:45,100 you know what if if I was not planning 341 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:47,350 on him being there in Phoenix this 342 00:15:53,340 --> 00:15:49,810 February I would I would be there 343 00:15:55,889 --> 00:15:53,350 because of that alone yeah me too 344 00:15:57,689 --> 00:15:55,899 I mean I the bob lazar thing was great 345 00:16:00,660 --> 00:15:57,699 it was a lot of fun people were floored 346 00:16:01,889 --> 00:16:00,670 they they had a great time so many 347 00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:01,899 people have been telling me it was 348 00:16:05,879 --> 00:16:03,279 historical and it did it there was a 349 00:16:11,309 --> 00:16:05,889 feeling of just you know and this was 350 00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,319 like a one-off event and but for me this 351 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:14,399 is even bigger Jacques Vallee I mean I 352 00:16:22,579 --> 00:16:18,490 am a huge Hynek van J Allen Hynek who 353 00:16:25,319 --> 00:16:22,589 was an astronomer at Northwestern and 354 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:25,329 consultant for the Air Force on UFOs and 355 00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:28,690 his protege was Jacques Vallee both of 356 00:16:32,850 --> 00:16:30,190 them being consultants for Close 357 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:32,860 Encounters true foes character even 358 00:16:38,009 --> 00:16:35,110 being based off of Jacques Vallee the 359 00:16:40,439 --> 00:16:38,019 French guy and so I mean and his books 360 00:16:42,569 --> 00:16:40,449 I've always been a huge fan of valets I 361 00:16:45,930 --> 00:16:42,579 was so floored when I got an interview 362 00:16:48,860 --> 00:16:45,940 but now that I'm gonna get to meet him 363 00:16:53,610 --> 00:16:48,870 this is going to be a treasured selfie 364 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:53,620 well that's great I'm so excited about 365 00:16:59,250 --> 00:16:56,290 it I'm excited too actually that's just 366 00:17:03,329 --> 00:16:59,260 great yeah I mean this is the ufologist 367 00:17:05,549 --> 00:17:03,339 ufologist you know yeah so this is gonna 368 00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:05,559 be really cool but yeah he investigated 369 00:17:09,929 --> 00:17:07,689 a lot of humanoids and and Jacques 370 00:17:11,819 --> 00:17:09,939 what's great about Jacques and I think 371 00:17:13,230 --> 00:17:11,829 you agree you just mentioned maybe they 372 00:17:13,649 --> 00:17:13,240 come from the future or something like 373 00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:13,659 that 374 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:18,370 because he's never said for you know 375 00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:21,370 that he always says it's not necessarily 376 00:17:25,380 --> 00:17:23,470 extraterrestrial there could be other 377 00:17:27,149 --> 00:17:25,390 things now when I interviewed him he 378 00:17:28,649 --> 00:17:27,159 said he talked a lot about that and how 379 00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:28,659 people get frustrated when he talks 380 00:17:32,370 --> 00:17:31,270 about that but I asked do youdo believe 381 00:17:33,930 --> 00:17:32,380 that some of this could be 382 00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:33,940 extraterrestrial and he said yeah he 383 00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:36,880 believes that some of it probably is but 384 00:17:40,140 --> 00:17:38,350 that there's probably many many other 385 00:17:42,299 --> 00:17:40,150 things happening that are just beyond 386 00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:42,309 our comprehension right that's up I 387 00:17:46,919 --> 00:17:43,929 totally agree with that 388 00:17:48,930 --> 00:17:46,929 a lot of times you know I've said kind 389 00:17:50,460 --> 00:17:48,940 of redundantly that you know maybe it's 390 00:17:53,279 --> 00:17:50,470 something that nobody's even thought of 391 00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:53,289 yet you know it very well could be yeah 392 00:17:57,659 --> 00:17:55,480 exactly and I think it most likely is 393 00:18:00,570 --> 00:17:57,669 because that's what science typically is 394 00:18:02,669 --> 00:18:00,580 we we have ideas about things should be 395 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:02,679 this way or that way and then once we 396 00:18:06,509 --> 00:18:03,970 get there 397 00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:06,519 send the probe or you know put it on 398 00:18:09,690 --> 00:18:08,200 down to a microscope it's completely 399 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:09,700 something we never even could have 400 00:18:14,730 --> 00:18:13,330 imagined it could have been right now we 401 00:18:16,529 --> 00:18:14,740 probably ought to get on with the news a 402 00:18:18,539 --> 00:18:16,539 little bit and I also have a story after 403 00:18:21,570 --> 00:18:18,549 your I know you have one more I think to 404 00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:21,580 go OK and after that I'd like to talk 405 00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:24,580 about a story ok great I'm excited to 406 00:18:31,409 --> 00:18:28,809 hear it know this last one's a fun one 407 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:31,419 because this is a Miami witness this was 408 00:18:35,820 --> 00:18:33,970 actually an event that happen in 1997 409 00:18:38,730 --> 00:18:35,830 and the witness just wrote MUFON about 410 00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:38,740 it happened in December 24th when the 411 00:18:44,369 --> 00:18:41,590 witness is 12 years old she says that on 412 00:18:48,389 --> 00:18:44,379 Christmas Eve she was sitting on top of 413 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:48,399 her mom's car this was in Miami I think 414 00:18:55,109 --> 00:18:51,490 I said that but and she was sitting up 415 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:55,119 there with a friend and her friend just 416 00:19:00,330 --> 00:18:57,730 kind of got shocked and was looking in 417 00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:00,340 the sky and she looked up and there was 418 00:19:05,879 --> 00:19:03,190 like this red light and she looked at it 419 00:19:07,950 --> 00:19:05,889 for a while and finally just and just 420 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:07,960 saw that there was this big craft in the 421 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:10,330 air that this red light was attached to 422 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:14,769 and then this red light shot down a beam 423 00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:17,110 she says it was only maybe 20 30 feet 424 00:19:24,239 --> 00:19:20,950 long and it was circular in shape it was 425 00:19:25,859 --> 00:19:24,249 a dull gray colored saucer she even said 426 00:19:27,749 --> 00:19:25,869 that she thinks that that her friend the 427 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:27,759 guy could have stood up and possibly 428 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:30,730 touched it but it shined down a beam she 429 00:19:38,899 --> 00:19:33,610 says and she was paralyzed and she could 430 00:19:40,259 --> 00:19:38,909 look around but her and and the guy were 431 00:19:43,109 --> 00:19:40,269 paralyzed 432 00:19:45,629 --> 00:19:43,119 once it the beam turned off it slowly 433 00:19:48,330 --> 00:19:45,639 started to move away and they both ran 434 00:19:51,149 --> 00:19:48,340 into their homes to call their families 435 00:19:54,060 --> 00:19:51,159 out to look and finally their families 436 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:54,070 came out and were able to see this red 437 00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:56,770 light taking off in the distance 438 00:20:01,290 --> 00:19:58,960 yeah that's something about the 439 00:20:03,530 --> 00:20:01,300 paralyzing thing and that almost like 440 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:03,540 leads into what you hear about a lot of 441 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:06,250 abduction accounts you know they they 442 00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:08,770 just are frozen they can't move it could 443 00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:10,000 be something like that 444 00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:11,740 you know I mean if they you know as it 445 00:20:15,030 --> 00:20:13,390 said many times if they had the 446 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:15,040 technology to do what they do you know 447 00:20:18,990 --> 00:20:17,410 who knows what else they can do mm-hmm 448 00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:19,000 yeah exactly 449 00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:21,910 and zapping someone with a paralyzing 450 00:20:29,010 --> 00:20:25,120 beam should be no problem at all yeah 451 00:20:33,210 --> 00:20:29,020 who knows I mean it's a really 452 00:20:34,470 --> 00:20:33,220 interesting account but just I don't 453 00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:34,480 know every you know you hear stories 454 00:20:37,530 --> 00:20:36,190 like this and you read about them and 455 00:20:41,970 --> 00:20:37,540 you just kind of put yourself in their 456 00:20:44,820 --> 00:20:41,980 shoes and just imagine and and the how 457 00:20:46,530 --> 00:20:44,830 incredible would be to see this it's 458 00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:46,540 kind of similar because of the Travis 459 00:20:51,780 --> 00:20:47,800 Walton thing you know I've been thinking 460 00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:51,790 a lot about when he came back and he 461 00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:53,350 says he was laying on the road when he 462 00:20:59,220 --> 00:20:55,809 saw this crap above him and then it and 463 00:21:02,760 --> 00:20:59,230 it took off kind of similar to this it's 464 00:21:06,169 --> 00:21:02,770 just I don't know it's amazing that what 465 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,179 kind of experience that would be and 466 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:08,320 just so many people with these great 467 00:21:15,299 --> 00:21:11,110 experiences right right now it's time 468 00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:15,309 for my story yeah so I had to show 469 00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:17,950 recently with Kevin Randle a few weeks 470 00:21:23,460 --> 00:21:21,520 ago and um someone this gentleman was 471 00:21:25,890 --> 00:21:23,470 searching the internet and came across 472 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:25,900 the Kevin Randle and listened to the 473 00:21:32,490 --> 00:21:29,410 podcast and then he wrote me and he said 474 00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:32,500 basically that I heard Kevin Randle say 475 00:21:37,410 --> 00:21:34,150 that there's no talk about Roswell 476 00:21:38,970 --> 00:21:37,420 before 1980 basically he says well I 477 00:21:43,890 --> 00:21:38,980 have a different account of that because 478 00:21:48,299 --> 00:21:43,900 when he was back in school in the 1960s 479 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:48,309 I think it was 1965 or so one of his 480 00:21:55,169 --> 00:21:51,850 roommates that was in the service and 481 00:21:57,299 --> 00:21:55,179 went off to do some training and he came 482 00:22:00,530 --> 00:21:57,309 back and he basically told the whole 483 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:00,540 Roswell story seeing images of the crash 484 00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:04,000 images of actually bodies and the whole 485 00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:05,919 thing and so they were talking about it 486 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,600 over some beers he said no the more 487 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:10,080 drunk but they talked about it 488 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:13,890 some beers back in 1965 and he is 489 00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:15,450 looking to get ahold of these people 490 00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:17,520 this guy's name is Frank Barnes he's 491 00:22:22,610 --> 00:22:20,910 freely giving his name and he's looking 492 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:22,620 to see if he can reach the guy that 493 00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:25,530 actually was the first hand witness to 494 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:28,320 those photographs and in the Air Force 495 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:31,050 training yeah that is so interesting 496 00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,970 because Kevin's right of course then 497 00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:35,280 Kevin should know and I I'd like to make 498 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:38,760 that point too is that you know often 499 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:40,770 people will say oh it was a crash at 500 00:22:44,780 --> 00:22:42,330 Roswell that started the Air Force 501 00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:44,790 looking into UFOs or Scott people into 502 00:22:49,790 --> 00:22:47,070 it that's not true people after it 503 00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:49,800 happened it pretty much even ufologists 504 00:22:54,050 --> 00:22:52,080 didn't really there's a couple obscure 505 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:54,060 references here and there actually that 506 00:22:58,790 --> 00:22:57,450 I found over the years but for the most 507 00:23:02,510 --> 00:22:58,800 part people just didn't know about it 508 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:02,520 until really Stanton Friedman you know 509 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:04,650 made it popular again after finding 510 00:23:10,100 --> 00:23:06,330 Jesse Marcel and doing those interviews 511 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:10,110 and then him and well he didn't get 512 00:23:12,860 --> 00:23:12,210 credit but for his research along with 513 00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:12,870 Bill Moore's 514 00:23:16,730 --> 00:23:15,840 and then putting together together the 515 00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:16,740 book on Roswell 516 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:19,080 so yeah this is that that's what makes 517 00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:21,330 the account that you're talking about 518 00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:24,510 that much more significant because you 519 00:23:30,860 --> 00:23:28,110 know you really had to know something to 520 00:23:32,330 --> 00:23:30,870 even know about it yeah you know that 521 00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:32,340 would be great to actually talk to this 522 00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:35,280 guy if he ever does on uncover the the 523 00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:37,920 witness you know to talk to them both so 524 00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,380 I'm going to keep on that and we'll see 525 00:23:45,250 --> 00:23:42,720 what happens with that whole thing yeah 526 00:23:48,980 --> 00:23:45,260 it would you know a lot of people even 527 00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:48,990 debunkers or skeptics say you know there 528 00:23:55,940 --> 00:23:50,580 was nothing ever said about it you know 529 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:55,950 and after it it hit the what was the 530 00:23:59,420 --> 00:23:57,570 name of the paper that came out in which 531 00:24:02,360 --> 00:23:59,430 is not a good paper the grocery-store 532 00:24:03,620 --> 00:24:02,370 tabloid I like that Inquirer yeah that's 533 00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:03,630 right it came out and they think wire 534 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:05,520 back in 1980 535 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:07,530 you know the interview but the Enquirer 536 00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:10,830 was a credible actual newspaper back 537 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:14,400 when oh and then it then it was bought 538 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:17,130 by the former CIA guy and then it went 539 00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:20,490 kind of in fact yeah I mean one of the 540 00:24:23,860 --> 00:24:22,560 big UFO researchers was Bob Pratt 541 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:23,870 because he 542 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:27,350 he was a writer for the National 543 00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:30,290 Enquirer and you know when you read his 544 00:24:35,020 --> 00:24:32,720 files which move on I think has reposted 545 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:35,030 because they inherited those because Bob 546 00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:37,370 Pratt was a MUFON guy in and they gave 547 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:39,200 him all of his files but when you read 548 00:24:45,660 --> 00:24:42,950 through some of that stuff bill more 549 00:24:49,030 --> 00:24:45,670 later on who became a dubious character 550 00:24:51,820 --> 00:24:49,040 you know was trying to pitch this mj-12 551 00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:51,830 story to him and there were others that 552 00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:54,350 Richard Doty tried to give him a fake 553 00:24:59,560 --> 00:24:57,200 UFO story that he researched any found 554 00:25:01,720 --> 00:24:59,570 was faked even flew around to where it 555 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:01,730 happened and discovered it was faked and 556 00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:03,290 all of these things he wouldn't print 557 00:25:07,870 --> 00:25:05,510 because he talked about he was he was a 558 00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:07,880 credible journalist and if he couldn't 559 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:10,190 he reported the facts and he couldn't 560 00:25:15,460 --> 00:25:12,650 verify something or if he found out it 561 00:25:17,410 --> 00:25:15,470 was a hoax he would not print it not 562 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:17,420 like today where essentially they just 563 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:18,650 kind of make stuff up 564 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:21,110 yeah the print things without even 565 00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:24,650 looking into him yeah wow that's amazing 566 00:25:29,530 --> 00:25:27,200 and I I know Bill Moore you know walked 567 00:25:33,220 --> 00:25:29,540 ran away from that you have foe field 568 00:25:37,030 --> 00:25:33,230 and he was he was kind of important in a 569 00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:37,040 lot of ways but you know but you said 570 00:25:41,380 --> 00:25:39,260 dubious and that's pretty well describes 571 00:25:44,860 --> 00:25:41,390 you know what he turned out to be and I 572 00:25:47,230 --> 00:25:44,870 just wondered if anyone in the UFO field 573 00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:47,240 at all ever speaks to him or will he not 574 00:25:48,910 --> 00:25:48,440 talk to anyone do you know anything 575 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:48,920 about that 576 00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:53,450 he won't the the latest I mean someone I 577 00:25:59,260 --> 00:25:56,720 think he talks to occasionally is Greg 578 00:26:02,500 --> 00:25:59,270 Bishop and Greg Bishop wrote a book 579 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:02,510 called project beta which included some 580 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:05,210 interviews with Bill Moore and that book 581 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:08,090 now is probably 1015 years old but it 582 00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:10,730 was about this whole you know Richard 583 00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:13,190 Doty affair and everything but yeah 584 00:26:19,030 --> 00:26:15,140 great big chef he does a show I think 585 00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:19,040 called Radio Mysterio but it's a good 586 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:23,320 book project beta if you can get it and 587 00:26:28,330 --> 00:26:25,850 he was the only one I know who has 588 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:28,340 talked to him in the past so other than 589 00:26:32,290 --> 00:26:30,170 him I don't know of anyone I know 590 00:26:34,109 --> 00:26:32,300 he didn't Stanton Friedman had a falling 591 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:34,119 out and yeah 592 00:26:42,569 --> 00:26:39,369 and it was because of some dishonest 593 00:26:44,939 --> 00:26:42,579 dealings that bill Moore was involved 594 00:26:47,219 --> 00:26:44,949 with that Sam Friedman had to say I 595 00:26:49,889 --> 00:26:47,229 can't be attached to that it was the 596 00:26:51,899 --> 00:26:49,899 famous announce me made Chris Lambright 597 00:26:54,209 --> 00:26:51,909 was sitting right in the audience when 598 00:26:57,689 --> 00:26:54,219 he came out yeah basically admitted to 599 00:27:00,779 --> 00:26:57,699 the entire I don't know if was a MUFON 600 00:27:03,389 --> 00:27:00,789 convention or what it was but mmm he 601 00:27:06,029 --> 00:27:03,399 admitted to everybody what was a what 602 00:27:11,609 --> 00:27:06,039 was she admitted that he had been 603 00:27:14,099 --> 00:27:11,619 working with Richard Doty who was an OSI 604 00:27:19,229 --> 00:27:14,109 agent Office of Special Investigations 605 00:27:22,859 --> 00:27:19,239 with Kirtland Air Force Base and he said 606 00:27:24,569 --> 00:27:22,869 that he was given to secret UFO info or 607 00:27:28,559 --> 00:27:24,579 that he was promised to be given secret 608 00:27:33,149 --> 00:27:28,569 UFO empo if he updated Doty on what the 609 00:27:35,699 --> 00:27:33,159 UFO people were up to and he says he did 610 00:27:40,009 --> 00:27:35,709 he knows Doty had spread disinformation 611 00:27:42,629 --> 00:27:40,019 but at that meeting he said she did not 612 00:27:46,229 --> 00:27:42,639 willingly spread any disinformation 613 00:27:48,779 --> 00:27:46,239 however later he admitted that he did 614 00:27:51,179 --> 00:27:48,789 and his you know his accounts have 615 00:27:54,089 --> 00:27:51,189 changed and fluctuated and gone this way 616 00:27:56,069 --> 00:27:54,099 in that way but everything the different 617 00:27:57,569 --> 00:27:56,079 things but so he's not necessarily that 618 00:27:59,399 --> 00:27:57,579 trustworthy but in that meeting he was 619 00:28:03,589 --> 00:27:59,409 kind of trying to justify what he did 620 00:28:06,869 --> 00:28:03,599 but it fell on deaf ears and people were 621 00:28:09,149 --> 00:28:06,879 screaming at him and and they even had 622 00:28:11,429 --> 00:28:09,159 to stop his talk people were storming 623 00:28:15,059 --> 00:28:11,439 out and they had to stop the talking to 624 00:28:16,409 --> 00:28:15,069 help remind everybody to be civil before 625 00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:16,419 they started up again 626 00:28:24,179 --> 00:28:21,279 yelled and yeah yeah so it was a it was 627 00:28:26,189 --> 00:28:24,189 a dark period for ufology and it's 628 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:26,199 something that unfortunately ufologist 629 00:28:31,459 --> 00:28:29,049 have many people who were involved just 630 00:28:33,749 --> 00:28:31,469 try to forget and I can understand why 631 00:28:35,129 --> 00:28:33,759 they just decided well I'm not dealing 632 00:28:38,219 --> 00:28:35,139 with him and I'm just gonna forget he 633 00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:38,229 exists but you know under further 634 00:28:41,849 --> 00:28:40,089 examination there was a lot of important 635 00:28:43,259 --> 00:28:41,859 stuff that can't be forgotten because 636 00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:43,269 there were a lot of hoaxes and 637 00:28:47,970 --> 00:28:46,089 disinformation that were spread during 638 00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:47,980 that period of time and of course 639 00:28:52,770 --> 00:28:49,809 it's important to try to ferret out what 640 00:28:54,390 --> 00:28:52,780 was real and what wasn't and that's why 641 00:28:57,419 --> 00:28:54,400 I have like a video online and I've 642 00:29:00,750 --> 00:28:57,429 written about this all as well as Chris 643 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:00,760 Lambert he and I don't necessarily did 644 00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,610 agree on on all of this but Chris is a 645 00:29:08,450 --> 00:29:05,679 great resource because like you said he 646 00:29:12,030 --> 00:29:08,460 was there yeah and he has some really 647 00:29:14,610 --> 00:29:12,040 interesting insight into that whole 648 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:14,620 period of time right right well we went 649 00:29:20,610 --> 00:29:18,610 a little long today oh that's fine so I 650 00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:20,620 want to thank you very much it was a lot 651 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:23,380 of fun and yeah thanks for having me on 652 00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:25,330 again it was great and come see Jack 653 00:29:28,740 --> 00:29:27,160 Ballet at the UFO Congress I'm 654 00:29:31,470 --> 00:29:28,750 definitely gonna be there alright 655 00:29:33,090 --> 00:29:31,480 alejandro so everyone hang in there for 656 00:30:23,680 --> 00:29:33,100 this quick music break we'll be right 657 00:30:30,650 --> 00:30:26,810 Jocasta hello there welcome to the show 658 00:30:34,820 --> 00:30:30,660 this is Martin Willis hi hi there so 659 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:34,830 Cheryl we met in Phoenix last year at 660 00:30:40,820 --> 00:30:38,010 the UFO Congress and it was a pleasure 661 00:30:43,580 --> 00:30:40,830 meeting you and I sat in on party to 662 00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:43,590 talk someone distracted me I was taken 663 00:30:48,290 --> 00:30:44,880 away I didn't get to listen to your 664 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:48,300 whole talk but I'm I here with some 665 00:30:56,510 --> 00:30:51,450 background noise I just moved away from 666 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:56,520 it okay good all right I'm kind of a I'm 667 00:31:00,290 --> 00:30:58,050 not a history buff I shouldn't say that 668 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:00,300 I'm a fan of history and you were 669 00:31:05,420 --> 00:31:03,210 talking about early UFO sightings that 670 00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:05,430 fascinates me but before we get into any 671 00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:06,960 of that can you tell the listening 672 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:10,190 audience your background basically and 673 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:13,650 what started you down the path of the 674 00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:15,810 UFO field and writing about it well I 675 00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:18,480 was always sort of a UFO bystander I had 676 00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:21,840 my first sighting Memphis about 12 years 677 00:31:28,670 --> 00:31:26,790 old the specter of 65 or so and we were 678 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:28,680 coming down off the family was out on a 679 00:31:31,820 --> 00:31:30,210 Sunday afternoon we were coming down a 680 00:31:34,790 --> 00:31:31,830 country road off the side of a hill 681 00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:34,800 beautiful late August afternoon 682 00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:37,440 blue skies not a cloud anywhere and out 683 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:40,470 there in the western sky about four 684 00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:42,450 o'clock me after a western sky was a 685 00:31:48,020 --> 00:31:44,220 great big silver ball and it just hung 686 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:48,030 there for 20 minutes and and then when 687 00:31:53,180 --> 00:31:52,010 it did depart president departed with 688 00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:53,190 lickety-split 689 00:31:59,690 --> 00:31:56,880 Wow so I know we all knew it wasn't a 690 00:32:02,150 --> 00:31:59,700 balloon after we had watched it my 691 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:02,160 mother was very tender about it sat down 692 00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:06,690 and explained to me something about UFO 693 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:09,600 apparently she was a little bit red on 694 00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:11,370 it as much as she could be probably in 695 00:32:17,390 --> 00:32:15,360 the 1965 timeframe and that was it 696 00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:17,400 that was my introduction and as I was 697 00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:19,110 going through high school I found a good 698 00:32:22,490 --> 00:32:20,640 book at the library I drink it home and 699 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:22,500 we'd share it you know so this is kind 700 00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:25,710 of a bonding thing with my mom huh wow 701 00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:27,030 that's kind of interesting you don't 702 00:32:34,850 --> 00:32:31,440 hear that too often no no you don't 703 00:32:37,159 --> 00:32:34,860 now the show the live show producer just 704 00:32:38,930 --> 00:32:37,169 asked if you could get into the phone a 705 00:32:39,409 --> 00:32:38,940 little more he says the volume is pretty 706 00:32:41,779 --> 00:32:39,419 low 707 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:41,789 sure sure I can do that I also can speak 708 00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:43,410 up properly probably he needs that a 709 00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:46,320 little bit yeah and so you're also a 710 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:49,200 playwright and yeah 711 00:32:55,490 --> 00:32:52,530 yeah I've been writing play since since 712 00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:55,500 the well I guess my first formal play 713 00:33:01,460 --> 00:32:59,039 that got actually debuted was in 1994 714 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:01,470 but I've written about thirty since that 715 00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:03,090 time I've had about three-quarters of 716 00:33:08,270 --> 00:33:04,320 them produced some of them 717 00:33:10,460 --> 00:33:08,280 internationally and the thing with 718 00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:10,470 playwrights is unless unless you're some 719 00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:12,780 guy like Neil Simon nobody knows your 720 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:16,590 name yep that's right that's right well 721 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:20,010 you know it through any field it takes 722 00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:22,710 really you know for someone to hit the 723 00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:24,390 top of about anything you know to become 724 00:33:29,510 --> 00:33:27,600 the rock star of that field it's you 725 00:33:33,049 --> 00:33:29,520 know it's like salmon going upstream 726 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:33,059 there's just a few make it yes that's 727 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:37,650 very true yeah the UFO field is about 728 00:33:43,580 --> 00:33:41,850 the same way you know there's a handful 729 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:43,590 of people seem to be invited to all the 730 00:33:46,730 --> 00:33:45,210 conventions and there's a whole bunch of 731 00:33:48,980 --> 00:33:46,740 other people like myself who are out 732 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:48,990 there doing some serious serious work 733 00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:52,890 and we don't get invited well you did 734 00:33:56,810 --> 00:33:55,440 you did speak at the and Phoenix what 735 00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:56,820 and I thought you were great 736 00:34:04,669 --> 00:34:00,799 so I'm surprised I didn't lead to more 737 00:34:09,980 --> 00:34:04,679 engagements for you I led to a lot of 738 00:34:12,500 --> 00:34:09,990 radio interviews both radio and podcast 739 00:34:16,010 --> 00:34:12,510 type things that type of thing I mean 740 00:34:19,070 --> 00:34:16,020 Richard Dolan had me in his show uh-huh 741 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:19,080 and a lot of people have had me I'm 742 00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:20,700 probably good twelve or fifteen people 743 00:34:26,740 --> 00:34:23,460 have had me on in one one capacity or 744 00:34:29,169 --> 00:34:26,750 another over the past eight months 745 00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:29,179 actually almost ten months at this point 746 00:34:37,550 --> 00:34:32,730 but it hasn't everybody saying oh I'll 747 00:34:40,700 --> 00:34:37,560 call you up in 2017 you know it's kind 748 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:40,710 of strange there's a button there is an 749 00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:42,570 effort afoot here in upstate New York 750 00:34:45,230 --> 00:34:44,790 we're trying to get enough state in New 751 00:34:47,869 --> 00:34:45,240 York 752 00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:47,879 convention going now and they start out 753 00:34:52,369 --> 00:34:50,190 small maybe like a one day convention 754 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:52,379 kind of thing but we're trying there's a 755 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:54,330 handful of us out there trying to pull 756 00:34:57,830 --> 00:34:56,490 it together and there's folks down from 757 00:34:59,810 --> 00:34:57,840 the New York City area who are 758 00:35:01,790 --> 00:34:59,820 interested in making it happen and bunch 759 00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:01,800 of us have been talking and saying maybe 760 00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:04,260 we can get together a a four or five 761 00:35:10,490 --> 00:35:07,680 speaker one-day event at some point now 762 00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:10,500 hang on to that thought because I want 763 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:11,820 to say something but I also want to 764 00:35:16,820 --> 00:35:14,610 remind people that anyone can call in if 765 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:16,830 you like that six oh three nine six 766 00:35:21,770 --> 00:35:19,410 seven four OH three Oh or you can jump 767 00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:21,780 in the chatroom that podcast UFO comm 768 00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:25,950 real easy sign up so you have you 769 00:35:31,370 --> 00:35:28,740 mentioned Richard Dolan now all right 770 00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:31,380 and you are in are you actually in 771 00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,470 Syracuse I mean I'm in Syracuse so 772 00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:36,960 Richard is judge out Rochester way so 773 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:39,540 he's about 90 minutes from me right now 774 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:42,090 is he proactive actually and trying to 775 00:35:49,130 --> 00:35:45,570 get group going to I haven't reached out 776 00:35:51,410 --> 00:35:49,140 to Richard yet that would be good he 777 00:35:54,590 --> 00:35:51,420 would be a good household name more or 778 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:54,600 less you know well yeah there's actually 779 00:36:01,250 --> 00:35:57,090 quite a few people here in New York 780 00:36:03,470 --> 00:36:01,260 State who have had good contact with you 781 00:36:04,820 --> 00:36:03,480 know either publishing in UFOs things 782 00:36:07,820 --> 00:36:04,830 like this under spot probably good 783 00:36:09,859 --> 00:36:07,830 half-dozen people really know Zimmerman 784 00:36:12,070 --> 00:36:09,869 in the Hudson Valley 785 00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,080 mhm Pete Robbins writes extensively 786 00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:14,880 about it he's just about an hour from me 787 00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:17,040 down down towards Watkins oh I thought 788 00:36:21,170 --> 00:36:18,780 he was in Pennsylvania so he's not that 789 00:36:26,810 --> 00:36:21,180 he's actually in New York down down 790 00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,820 nearby Seneca Lake and there's a handful 791 00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,320 of other people I can't pull off top my 792 00:36:34,190 --> 00:36:30,480 head right now and there's another new 793 00:36:38,359 --> 00:36:34,200 guy a new guy by the name of Tom Conway 794 00:36:41,210 --> 00:36:38,369 and he is up in Detroit New York area 795 00:36:43,580 --> 00:36:41,220 bye-bye Albany mm-hmm 796 00:36:45,950 --> 00:36:43,590 and he's been doing similar research to 797 00:36:48,740 --> 00:36:45,960 me and in fact we kind of put our heads 798 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:48,750 together and we quite accidentally on 799 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:51,090 Facebook one day I was showing a chart 800 00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:55,650 of the percentage of UFO sightings based 801 00:36:59,089 --> 00:36:58,410 at the county level in New York State 802 00:37:02,269 --> 00:36:59,099 it's a very 803 00:37:05,359 --> 00:37:02,279 rare kind of presentation I had to go in 804 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:05,369 and pull County data both for MUFON and 805 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:08,130 I had to create it using the national 806 00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:10,650 UFO Reporting database because they 807 00:37:14,420 --> 00:37:12,420 don't they don't track County data so I 808 00:37:16,759 --> 00:37:14,430 had to literally go look up 3,500 809 00:37:19,579 --> 00:37:16,769 sightings to and put it in a spreadsheet 810 00:37:23,509 --> 00:37:19,589 what county they were in Wow two months 811 00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:23,519 took two months and every evening for a 812 00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:25,049 couple of hours for two months that's 813 00:37:29,269 --> 00:37:25,710 what I did 814 00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,279 but what we figured out I had a pattern 815 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:31,440 of where all the hotspots in New York 816 00:37:37,249 --> 00:37:34,410 State were mmm okay and there's about 817 00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:37,259 nine major hotspots and what was 818 00:37:42,469 --> 00:37:39,420 interesting was I was showing a couple 819 00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:42,479 of the slides on the UFO updates on the 820 00:37:48,859 --> 00:37:45,599 Facebook and Tom came back to me and 821 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:48,869 shot me a shot me a picture of a map he 822 00:37:53,420 --> 00:37:50,729 had on the wall he had a New York State 823 00:37:54,739 --> 00:37:53,430 map on the wall road map and he had pins 824 00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:54,749 and he had gone through the same 825 00:38:00,489 --> 00:37:57,660 databases and was putting pins in but he 826 00:38:02,839 --> 00:38:00,499 was doing like he had pink pins for 827 00:38:04,759 --> 00:38:02,849 fireballs on another wall he had another 828 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:04,769 road map up there and he was doing 829 00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:07,170 triangles you know and he was able to 830 00:38:13,099 --> 00:38:10,049 show the distribution of different types 831 00:38:15,859 --> 00:38:13,109 of major types of UFOs and their 832 00:38:18,109 --> 00:38:15,869 patterns in New York State and quite a 833 00:38:19,969 --> 00:38:18,119 lively presentation that he's got so I'm 834 00:38:22,219 --> 00:38:19,979 hoping to get him get him to do 835 00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:22,229 something it whatever kind of a little 836 00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:23,880 convention or conference we put together 837 00:38:29,989 --> 00:38:26,960 boy I wish I could be that organized 838 00:38:32,089 --> 00:38:29,999 sounds really great now I saw one of 839 00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:32,099 your articles you write for the Syracuse 840 00:38:35,450 --> 00:38:33,569 New Times is it 841 00:38:37,219 --> 00:38:35,460 I read for two new services that write 842 00:38:39,769 --> 00:38:37,229 for Syracuse News Times been with them 843 00:38:42,229 --> 00:38:39,779 two and a half years the columns called 844 00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:42,239 New York skies and it's a weekly blog 845 00:38:48,469 --> 00:38:45,599 and it's one of the hit blogs it's a 846 00:38:50,959 --> 00:38:48,479 rock we rock and roll that that 847 00:38:52,789 --> 00:38:50,969 newspaper and we've got international 848 00:38:54,349 --> 00:38:52,799 readership the editors just do 849 00:38:56,539 --> 00:38:54,359 cartwheels about the fact that we have 850 00:38:59,269 --> 00:38:56,549 international readership a little weekly 851 00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:59,279 in upstate New York and then I also 852 00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:01,920 write for the slant news service out of 853 00:39:08,299 --> 00:39:05,369 New York City and I the science editor 854 00:39:12,740 --> 00:39:08,309 there has me write UFO articles for him 855 00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:12,750 as well well now I I noticed in the 856 00:39:17,390 --> 00:39:15,180 one of your articles was on a triangle 857 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:17,400 and it was a great great article great 858 00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:21,810 sighting and yeah I was afraid that no 859 00:39:26,330 --> 00:39:24,150 no it was about the guy that said he 860 00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:26,340 could if there was a pole on his barn he 861 00:39:31,490 --> 00:39:28,920 could he could reach it from there or 862 00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:31,500 something like that and it was 12 foot 863 00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:33,270 by 12 foot by 12 foot he said that 864 00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:35,280 that's the approximate size it flew real 865 00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:38,220 low yeah it was the one that was like 866 00:39:45,380 --> 00:39:40,320 literally floating over his barn yeah 867 00:39:46,910 --> 00:39:45,390 yeah so triangles always interest me and 868 00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:46,920 it just seems like there's more and more 869 00:39:53,210 --> 00:39:50,310 of them and when you were doing this or 870 00:39:56,210 --> 00:39:53,220 when you were looking at this chart did 871 00:40:01,220 --> 00:39:56,220 you see that there there was a like a 872 00:40:06,260 --> 00:40:01,230 peak in triangles no no not as much as 873 00:40:11,090 --> 00:40:06,270 you might think I didn't I didn't do a a 874 00:40:13,220 --> 00:40:11,100 real serious breakdown on triangles but 875 00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:13,230 maybe a little later in the program I 876 00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,730 can give you some good numbers here I 877 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:17,040 only need to pull up a spreadsheet and I 878 00:40:23,230 --> 00:40:19,530 can give you some real serious numbers I 879 00:40:25,610 --> 00:40:23,240 just don't have it right this moment 880 00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:25,620 actually I found it 881 00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:31,470 orange fireballs uh-huh that's the very 882 00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:34,140 predominant yep isn't that something we 883 00:40:40,690 --> 00:40:37,200 had Terry ray on he he and a few other 884 00:40:44,090 --> 00:40:40,700 people are organizing some type of 885 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:44,100 orange orb and move on and move on and 886 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:47,850 some type of research I'm not sure if 887 00:40:52,340 --> 00:40:49,050 you're familiar with that or not but 888 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:52,350 they are going to explore all these 889 00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,090 orange orbs that people are seeing and I 890 00:41:00,590 --> 00:40:56,640 know they're some of them can certainly 891 00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:00,600 be Chinese lanterns but there are some 892 00:41:06,410 --> 00:41:02,760 there's just too many sightings that do 893 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:06,420 too many unusual things that it just 894 00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:08,850 wouldn't be explained by the Chinese 895 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:12,780 leaners well that's the joke my spouse 896 00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:15,810 has with this whole thing every time 897 00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:20,700 somebody talks about the the Chinese 898 00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:22,680 Lantern it moves a hundred and fifty six 899 00:41:26,570 --> 00:41:25,680 hundred miles an hour you know I you 900 00:41:28,070 --> 00:41:26,580 know that 901 00:41:30,050 --> 00:41:28,080 the difference I have a lot of people 902 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:30,060 write me and honestly tell me all it's 903 00:41:35,270 --> 00:41:33,090 just Chinese lanterns they have 904 00:41:37,460 --> 00:41:35,280 absolutely no idea what the what people 905 00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:37,470 are really reporting and these things 906 00:41:44,180 --> 00:41:41,910 are flying in formations they're flying 907 00:41:46,450 --> 00:41:44,190 in formations and darting around like a 908 00:41:49,070 --> 00:41:46,460 bunch of like a bunch of fireflies 909 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:49,080 they're flying in formations where 910 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:51,210 they'll bill they'll make themselves 911 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:54,330 look like an airplane when the best ones 912 00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:57,330 I ever saw was it was they actually it 913 00:42:01,250 --> 00:41:59,280 was about ten of them and they lined 914 00:42:02,690 --> 00:42:01,260 themselves up and if you looked at if 915 00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:02,700 you just glanced up in the sky you but I 916 00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:04,500 thought it was just a jetliner up there 917 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:06,390 but it was actually ten of them like in 918 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:09,090 a crosstie kind of formation with a 919 00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:10,530 couple them in the back make it look 920 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:13,920 like the back wing wow it was it was 921 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:16,050 very stealth but very cute the way they 922 00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:17,850 were making it look it was if it's quite 923 00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:19,470 interesting so this is actually a 924 00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:22,230 sighting that you had know I saw a 925 00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:26,280 picture of it mhm now one of the things 926 00:42:32,660 --> 00:42:28,320 I remembered you're talking about is a 927 00:42:35,110 --> 00:42:32,670 200 year old the UFO account yes all 928 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:35,120 right can we talk about that sure again 929 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:38,250 okay so you know over a 14 year window 930 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:43,290 okay 14 your window we had 378 triangle 931 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:47,130 sightings oh you're looking at this data 932 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:50,370 right now I just pulled up the pivot 933 00:42:55,810 --> 00:42:55,170 table yeah we had can we give it to you 934 00:43:00,260 --> 00:42:55,820 again 935 00:43:03,740 --> 00:43:00,270 378 triangle sightings this is out of 30 936 00:43:07,250 --> 00:43:03,750 a grand total of 30 931 sightings over a 937 00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:07,260 period of let us say over the last 938 00:43:15,050 --> 00:43:10,980 hundred years okay and you know please 939 00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:15,060 understand before about 1960 there's not 940 00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:16,800 a whole heck of a lot in the database 941 00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:20,310 but from from there on up to about the 942 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:23,880 late 80s early 90s we start seeing a lot 943 00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:26,970 of a lot of sightings in the database 944 00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:29,160 only because people either remembered it 945 00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:32,100 and put it in the modern database or it 946 00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:33,990 was stuff that was carried over from up 947 00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:36,990 you know back from the time before the 948 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:39,150 internet when people fax these things in 949 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:40,690 I did about four 950 00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:42,130 smell recordings and things like that 951 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:43,839 that's how people used to report these 952 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:46,210 things after we got into the mid 90s 953 00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:48,130 people started using things like BBS's 954 00:43:53,309 --> 00:43:50,800 both on board services and then as we 955 00:43:54,089 --> 00:43:53,319 towards the late 90s we got onto the 956 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:54,099 Internet 957 00:44:00,089 --> 00:43:57,490 and from about 99 and we start seeing 958 00:44:01,859 --> 00:44:00,099 some serious solid reporting of UFO 959 00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:01,869 sightings that's important to keep in 960 00:44:05,540 --> 00:44:03,849 mind now I was going to tell you the 961 00:44:09,329 --> 00:44:05,550 other one there the big one here 962 00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:09,339 circular-shaped UFOs we're going to call 963 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:12,400 them like the the just the circular 964 00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:14,290 shape some of these saw a circular shape 965 00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:16,900 that's in the 400 range 966 00:44:22,410 --> 00:44:19,089 diamond diamond shapes are almost 967 00:44:25,470 --> 00:44:22,420 non-existent people seeing them flying 968 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:25,480 discs the classic flying-saucer 288 of 969 00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:27,810 them fireballs on the other hand about 970 00:44:34,829 --> 00:44:32,560 311 hmm so this is this is probably over 971 00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:34,839 the last 20 years as the strength of 972 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:37,089 this database mm-hmm 973 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:41,890 well the fireballs do you mean as in a 974 00:44:50,190 --> 00:44:46,930 meteor no no no no no just um they are 975 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:50,200 typically depicted like a glowing ball 976 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:53,650 hmm they have a kind of a they have kind 977 00:44:59,790 --> 00:44:57,250 of a a fiery qualities oh I saw one 978 00:45:03,180 --> 00:44:59,800 actually last summer I had gone to a 979 00:45:05,970 --> 00:45:03,190 kanay conference done and down in 980 00:45:09,059 --> 00:45:05,980 Philadelphia and we were coming we were 981 00:45:13,230 --> 00:45:09,069 coming back up I 81 just north of 982 00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:13,240 Scranton and it looked almost like a 983 00:45:17,069 --> 00:45:15,280 bumble being the distance coming down 984 00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:17,079 the valley it was kind of darting back 985 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:18,430 and forth and it was still daylight 986 00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:20,650 maybe about a half an hour for sunset 987 00:45:26,250 --> 00:45:23,680 and the guy driving the car said is that 988 00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:26,260 an orb in all and I looked down the road 989 00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:28,150 and I saw this thing it was probably at 990 00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:29,740 about a thousand maybe two thousand feet 991 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:33,280 off the ground and as we literally grow 992 00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:36,450 under it I looked up at it 993 00:45:48,030 --> 00:45:43,680 imagine a circular ball of iridescent 994 00:45:49,260 --> 00:45:48,040 that has kind of a I'm going to say you 995 00:45:51,089 --> 00:45:49,270 know like if you saw in the movies 996 00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:51,099 sometimes the things have kind of an 997 00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:52,630 iridescent and then there's kind of like 998 00:45:55,890 --> 00:45:54,670 a maybe a teeny quality or 999 00:45:58,590 --> 00:45:55,900 that kind of makes it almost look like 1000 00:45:59,070 --> 00:45:58,600 it's maybe on fire or steaming or 1001 00:46:01,590 --> 00:45:59,080 something 1002 00:46:05,490 --> 00:46:01,600 you had that quality to it and it was 1003 00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:05,500 bright orange Wow yeah daylight 1004 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:08,470 sightings are are really interesting and 1005 00:46:12,750 --> 00:46:10,690 one of the things that I was thinking of 1006 00:46:15,630 --> 00:46:12,760 when you were talking about all these 1007 00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:15,640 different ways of reporting is can you 1008 00:46:19,830 --> 00:46:17,560 imagine what the small percentage of 1009 00:46:22,110 --> 00:46:19,840 people that actually go through all the 1010 00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:22,120 trouble of reporting you know it's 1011 00:46:27,150 --> 00:46:25,150 probably very low Stanton Friedman it 1012 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:27,160 when we were at the International UFO 1013 00:46:32,430 --> 00:46:29,530 conference down in Phoenix back in 1014 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:32,440 February at one point he was on a panel 1015 00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:35,530 and they raised that point they said you 1016 00:46:42,030 --> 00:46:39,070 know what is the rate of people who 1017 00:46:43,950 --> 00:46:42,040 actually do pick up and AG are going to 1018 00:46:46,140 --> 00:46:43,960 the computer or kentley you know make a 1019 00:46:48,990 --> 00:46:46,150 make a formal report and they figure 1020 00:46:51,870 --> 00:46:49,000 it's like 1 in 10 I wouldn't doubt it 1021 00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:51,880 because well you know the this the point 1022 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:53,710 of my show comes up quite a bit when I'm 1023 00:46:57,630 --> 00:46:55,570 talking to someone when I feel 1024 00:46:59,730 --> 00:46:57,640 comfortable enough I'll say well you 1025 00:47:02,820 --> 00:46:59,740 know I do kind of well sort of an 1026 00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:02,830 esoteric show on UFOs huh I'll admit it 1027 00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:05,950 and it's kind of funny because I've had 1028 00:47:10,980 --> 00:47:07,960 so many people talk about their 1029 00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:10,990 sightings that are just you know people 1030 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:14,590 you would never imagine and the question 1031 00:47:18,930 --> 00:47:16,570 always come up comes up did you report 1032 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:18,940 it and they say no you know I would say 1033 00:47:22,830 --> 00:47:21,130 that of all the people that I've talked 1034 00:47:25,650 --> 00:47:22,840 to I don't think there's one person that 1035 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:25,660 said they reported it and that's got to 1036 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:27,610 be twenty or thirty different people in 1037 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:30,850 general conversation I put up a chart a 1038 00:47:36,380 --> 00:47:32,410 couple of weeks ago I put it up on 1039 00:47:42,930 --> 00:47:36,390 Facebook where I listed the top ten 1040 00:47:46,530 --> 00:47:42,940 states for UFO sightings okay and the 1041 00:47:48,450 --> 00:47:46,540 top ten and when I put it up and I did 1042 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:48,460 it in a little bar chart so you see you 1043 00:47:52,590 --> 00:47:50,290 know who really were the heavy hitters 1044 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:52,600 for it now this was strictly based on 1045 00:47:58,140 --> 00:47:55,810 national UFO Reporting Center data 1046 00:48:01,620 --> 00:47:58,150 because it's easily it's easily 1047 00:48:04,110 --> 00:48:01,630 downloadable and you put it into a 1048 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:04,120 spreadsheet or into a database and 1049 00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:06,970 crunch it very nicely it's a little 1050 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:08,710 harder to get the 1051 00:48:13,770 --> 00:48:11,650 who finds data but what I have found 1052 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:13,780 when I have gone off and actually got 1053 00:48:19,830 --> 00:48:16,210 move on data's safer a same period of 1054 00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:19,840 time I find that it's less than about 1055 00:48:24,540 --> 00:48:22,510 three percent duplication and sightings 1056 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:24,550 probably actually down were around one 1057 00:48:28,860 --> 00:48:26,410 to two percent duplication and sighting 1058 00:48:32,430 --> 00:48:28,870 when you combine both databases the 1059 00:48:34,290 --> 00:48:32,440 numbers about double hmm so I've got a 1060 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:34,300 place where there's a hundred sightings 1061 00:48:39,150 --> 00:48:37,090 on the national UFO Reporting Center if 1062 00:48:40,890 --> 00:48:39,160 I throw the MUFON numbers in there maybe 1063 00:48:42,990 --> 00:48:40,900 there's another seventy for the same 1064 00:48:45,660 --> 00:48:43,000 period of time so the numbers almost 1065 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:45,670 double so if I if I tell you that New 1066 00:48:52,350 --> 00:48:50,530 York State had four thousand four forty 1067 00:48:56,610 --> 00:48:52,360 six hundred and seventy five sightings 1068 00:48:58,410 --> 00:48:56,620 over a 14 year window it was because but 1069 00:49:01,100 --> 00:48:58,420 that was national UFO Reporting Center 1070 00:49:04,890 --> 00:49:01,110 data they probably had closer to eight 1071 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:04,900 thousand sightings would combine data 1072 00:49:09,930 --> 00:49:08,050 from both databases right right and then 1073 00:49:13,850 --> 00:49:09,940 old and then you throw that other thing 1074 00:49:16,410 --> 00:49:13,860 on top one in ten reported UFO sighting 1075 00:49:19,860 --> 00:49:16,420 you do the math it gets pretty scary 1076 00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:19,870 it does get scary I told one of the 1077 00:49:23,370 --> 00:49:21,520 things I told one of the editors at the 1078 00:49:25,110 --> 00:49:23,380 newspaper one day he said well how many 1079 00:49:26,370 --> 00:49:25,120 sightings do we really have in your say 1080 00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,380 it's at five percent of the world 1081 00:49:33,660 --> 00:49:28,480 sightings and about fell off his chair 1082 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:33,670 and and when he wrote an editorial last 1083 00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:35,890 year in fact it was last one he did with 1084 00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:40,000 the paper just before he retired and in 1085 00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:42,250 fact it was the last one of last year 1086 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:45,040 and he quite literally said you know the 1087 00:49:48,660 --> 00:49:46,930 most popular column we've got here at 1088 00:49:52,380 --> 00:49:48,670 the paper is that in print it's on the 1089 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:52,390 internet and it's about UFOs and oh by 1090 00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:54,610 the way before you say why is there a 1091 00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:57,010 UFO column in the Syracuse New Times he 1092 00:50:00,990 --> 00:49:58,720 says because there's a lot of sightings 1093 00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:01,000 in New York State and then you started 1094 00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:03,310 quoting some of my numbers you know and 1095 00:50:08,310 --> 00:50:06,400 it got a rather interesting response and 1096 00:50:09,930 --> 00:50:08,320 from the from the reading public so to 1097 00:50:12,300 --> 00:50:09,940 speak a lot of people are going why 1098 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:12,310 isn't somebody talking about this and 1099 00:50:16,410 --> 00:50:13,930 that was one of my arguments and how I 1100 00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:16,420 got into writing a column because nobody 1101 00:50:21,090 --> 00:50:19,630 was reporting this stuff and I've had 1102 00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:21,100 people write me and say well how come 1103 00:50:23,730 --> 00:50:22,240 you're reporting a fourteen 1104 00:50:26,130 --> 00:50:23,740 your old funny because nobody wrote 1105 00:50:30,210 --> 00:50:26,140 about it uh-huh 1106 00:50:33,090 --> 00:50:30,220 know that the subject is very popular it 1107 00:50:37,050 --> 00:50:33,100 really is and have you ever looked into 1108 00:50:40,260 --> 00:50:37,060 I want to say is it the Hudson what was 1109 00:50:44,730 --> 00:50:40,270 that the lower Hudson sightings or 1110 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:44,740 whatever the one that kept happening the 1111 00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:46,330 one kept happening down around the 1112 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:49,030 endpoint of the reactor 1113 00:50:53,220 --> 00:50:51,610 I'm gonna say black triangles there was 1114 00:50:55,230 --> 00:50:53,230 some type of sighting that was seen this 1115 00:50:58,440 --> 00:50:55,240 is going way back though I'm talking you 1116 00:51:00,870 --> 00:50:58,450 know twenty twenty some odd years it was 1117 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:00,880 like a parkway in New York that people 1118 00:51:07,410 --> 00:51:05,290 kept seeing Titanic Parkway well that 1119 00:51:09,359 --> 00:51:07,420 particular location in New York is one 1120 00:51:14,130 --> 00:51:09,369 of the habits in Westchester County and 1121 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:14,140 Westchester County is a hot spot mm-hmm 1122 00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:16,930 in fact if you give me 20 seconds I'll 1123 00:51:20,460 --> 00:51:18,910 pull up one of my slides and I'll tell 1124 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:20,470 you exactly how many sightings they've 1125 00:51:25,830 --> 00:51:22,930 got actually what I can actually do for 1126 00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:25,840 you is I can actually tell you how where 1127 00:51:30,210 --> 00:51:28,240 the hot spots are is that something not 1128 00:51:34,290 --> 00:51:30,220 many people know is I haven't published 1129 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:34,300 this data yet Wow yeah your audience is 1130 00:51:39,150 --> 00:51:36,490 gonna get the first crack at this okay 1131 00:51:43,290 --> 00:51:39,160 hotspots are always intriguing to me and 1132 00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:43,300 it just makes me wonder why why they are 1133 00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:48,400 hotspots well when I did a chart I broke 1134 00:51:54,570 --> 00:51:51,430 my my study down this the study has not 1135 00:51:57,420 --> 00:51:54,580 been presented yet okay when I broke I 1136 00:52:00,620 --> 00:51:57,430 went and did a in fact this came out of 1137 00:52:06,180 --> 00:52:00,630 the National you know it came out of the 1138 00:52:08,070 --> 00:52:06,190 eye of the International UFO Congress 1139 00:52:09,870 --> 00:52:08,080 meeting that we all went to there in 1140 00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:09,880 February this year mm-hmm 1141 00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:12,130 there was a professor there from a 1142 00:52:17,460 --> 00:52:14,800 California University and after he saw 1143 00:52:19,740 --> 00:52:17,470 my presentation he said well I'm doing 1144 00:52:27,930 --> 00:52:19,750 some studying down in the Hudson Valley 1145 00:52:29,609 --> 00:52:27,940 of some caves that are not natural they 1146 00:52:32,099 --> 00:52:29,619 were made by somebody and they're 1147 00:52:35,370 --> 00:52:32,109 estimated to be close to 12,000 years 1148 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:35,380 old well and they have gone out and 1149 00:52:39,090 --> 00:52:36,010 serve 1150 00:52:40,980 --> 00:52:39,100 these things with GPS and they can quite 1151 00:52:45,150 --> 00:52:40,990 literally tell you the zip code of every 1152 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:45,160 one of these these caves and she asked 1153 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:48,370 me if I could give him a map of the 1154 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:50,050 hotspots within New York State and I 1155 00:52:54,450 --> 00:52:51,850 said you know it doesn't exist but I'll 1156 00:52:57,570 --> 00:52:54,460 make it for you and so the next four 1157 00:52:59,640 --> 00:52:57,580 months I worked on you know breaking all 1158 00:53:01,410 --> 00:52:59,650 that data down it's down to the county 1159 00:53:03,450 --> 00:53:01,420 level and I he's looked the only person 1160 00:53:06,750 --> 00:53:03,460 I shared the entire list of what the 1161 00:53:08,550 --> 00:53:06,760 County sighting counts are but that's 1162 00:53:12,260 --> 00:53:08,560 how that came to us how the study came 1163 00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:12,270 to be and what was funny about it was 1164 00:53:17,430 --> 00:53:15,100 everybody was saying to me well you know 1165 00:53:20,580 --> 00:53:17,440 how come that hot spots there's a 1166 00:53:23,490 --> 00:53:20,590 nuclear reactor in or it's a military 1167 00:53:25,770 --> 00:53:23,500 base or something like this and those 1168 00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:25,780 questions started really really coming 1169 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:27,310 in everybody tried to take a shot at 1170 00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:33,610 what was there and I took one I first 1171 00:53:38,130 --> 00:53:35,290 thing I took all the counties and broke 1172 00:53:41,310 --> 00:53:38,140 them down by the ten economic regions of 1173 00:53:44,010 --> 00:53:41,320 upstate New York of New York State okay 1174 00:53:48,590 --> 00:53:44,020 typically about five to eight counties 1175 00:53:51,630 --> 00:53:48,600 per economic region near 62 counties and 1176 00:53:54,030 --> 00:53:51,640 within each economic region there was 1177 00:53:57,330 --> 00:53:54,040 one state that hovered above them all 1178 00:53:59,850 --> 00:53:57,340 and so if five counties of the six and 1179 00:54:02,340 --> 00:53:59,860 reticular economic region had sightings 1180 00:54:04,830 --> 00:54:02,350 over 14 years average no more than four 1181 00:54:06,540 --> 00:54:04,840 to fifteen or twenty over the fourteen 1182 00:54:11,460 --> 00:54:06,550 years there was one County and there 1183 00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:11,470 would have 200 why are 150 or 500 or 1184 00:54:15,090 --> 00:54:12,640 something like that yeah that pretty 1185 00:54:17,340 --> 00:54:15,100 much spells it out right so there was a 1186 00:54:23,010 --> 00:54:17,350 spike so I went in my editor one day and 1187 00:54:24,510 --> 00:54:23,020 I slayed all 10 slides out and let him 1188 00:54:26,310 --> 00:54:24,520 look at them and he started asking all 1189 00:54:28,110 --> 00:54:26,320 the same questions was there nuclear 1190 00:54:31,290 --> 00:54:28,120 reactor there is there pollution there 1191 00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:31,300 is it just a population center what is 1192 00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:34,000 it and he told me check everything I 1193 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:35,920 spent the next three months check we 1194 00:54:44,580 --> 00:54:40,450 checked ley lines we checked geological 1195 00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:44,590 faults we checked natural resources and 1196 00:54:48,810 --> 00:54:47,200 mineral minerals reactor there's many 1197 00:54:49,650 --> 00:54:48,820 foreigners or reactors in New York State 1198 00:54:53,250 --> 00:54:49,660 and 1199 00:54:55,740 --> 00:54:53,260 of them are down on the Hudson Valley 1200 00:54:58,620 --> 00:54:55,750 that's it yeah what's the Hudson Valley 1201 00:55:01,020 --> 00:54:58,630 you have the Hudson River Valley UFO 1202 00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:01,030 sightings what I was thinking of well 1203 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:07,200 there's a place down you're called I 1204 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:08,170 don't know if you ever heard it it's 1205 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:09,970 called Pine Bush oh yeah 1206 00:55:14,849 --> 00:55:11,770 down the I had done this they claim to 1207 00:55:18,990 --> 00:55:14,859 be the UFO capital of New York right 1208 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:19,000 there not nine other counties in New 1209 00:55:23,339 --> 00:55:20,530 York City have more sightings than they 1210 00:55:25,049 --> 00:55:23,349 do now what didn't they at one time 1211 00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:25,059 wasn't something going on at one time 1212 00:55:31,740 --> 00:55:28,710 that it was even people are lining up 1213 00:55:33,660 --> 00:55:31,750 someone that helps out with the show on 1214 00:55:35,930 --> 00:55:33,670 our Facebook was telling me a story 1215 00:55:39,029 --> 00:55:35,940 about actually parking her car and 1216 00:55:42,299 --> 00:55:39,039 waiting you know people all out on their 1217 00:55:44,700 --> 00:55:42,309 lawn chairs waiting am i I'm pretty sure 1218 00:55:47,339 --> 00:55:44,710 that was Pine Bush it might have been in 1219 00:55:49,410 --> 00:55:47,349 fact the thing is one of the points with 1220 00:55:51,180 --> 00:55:49,420 pine Bush and this is where I went nine 1221 00:55:52,589 --> 00:55:51,190 rounds with them about this because they 1222 00:55:54,660 --> 00:55:52,599 got very upset when I published an 1223 00:55:57,089 --> 00:55:54,670 article said that they weren't this 1224 00:56:00,089 --> 00:55:57,099 Capitol okay all right 1225 00:56:02,010 --> 00:56:00,099 there's a point did they report it in 1226 00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:02,020 the database yes there were there were 1227 00:56:07,289 --> 00:56:04,569 reports but I told the one guy it's like 1228 00:56:09,329 --> 00:56:07,299 he says 5,000 people saw I said yeah but 1229 00:56:12,539 --> 00:56:09,339 if it was one sighting and 5,000 people 1230 00:56:15,299 --> 00:56:12,549 saw it it was just one sighting mm-hmm 1231 00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,309 okay just because 5,000 people so it 1232 00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:17,680 doesn't give you 5,000 count accounts 1233 00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:22,510 yeah so that was where the issue is 1234 00:56:25,650 --> 00:56:24,250 yeah they handled they had more yeah 1235 00:56:27,299 --> 00:56:25,660 I'll tell you those guys under your 1236 00:56:30,180 --> 00:56:27,309 knots and Valley have had some extremely 1237 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:30,190 visible sightings over the years some 1238 00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:33,010 amazing things there's there was a 1239 00:56:40,589 --> 00:56:37,089 couple down by the US Military Academy 1240 00:56:42,059 --> 00:56:40,599 at West Point and I can't put my fingers 1241 00:56:45,059 --> 00:56:42,069 on those right now but there was a 1242 00:56:47,010 --> 00:56:45,069 couple amazing ones down there but again 1243 00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:47,020 trying to find good write-ups about it 1244 00:56:51,809 --> 00:56:49,599 and everything so it's difficult now 1245 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:51,819 what part of New York State I've got 1246 00:56:58,769 --> 00:56:54,010 that chart up I can tell you where all 1247 00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:58,779 the hot spots are oh good okay it go 1248 00:57:01,980 --> 00:57:01,119 ahead tell we lead the way where do you 1249 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:01,990 want well no it's 1250 00:57:05,790 --> 00:57:03,610 see I don't have a map of New York up in 1251 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:05,800 front of me so well let me take it this 1252 00:57:12,540 --> 00:57:08,770 way if you go up to the western part of 1253 00:57:13,710 --> 00:57:12,550 New York State Niagara Falls that area 1254 00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:13,720 mm-hmm 1255 00:57:20,609 --> 00:57:16,630 Erie County New York State is 1256 00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:20,619 essentially Buffalo New York okay and if 1257 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:23,280 all the other sightings in the state 1258 00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:27,010 we're averaging around 50 over 14 year 1259 00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:30,250 period or in that in general area they 1260 00:57:35,310 --> 00:57:32,860 had 305 Wow 1261 00:57:36,990 --> 00:57:35,320 and sometimes referred to as the Erie 1262 00:57:39,780 --> 00:57:37,000 Lake effect that they have a lot of 1263 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:39,790 sightings up around Erie Lake so what 1264 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:41,770 about New York City you think of the 1265 00:57:46,950 --> 00:57:43,810 population I don't go down there you 1266 00:57:48,450 --> 00:57:46,960 staying up staying there okay I'm gonna 1267 00:57:50,370 --> 00:57:48,460 get I'm gonna get I'm gonna get to New 1268 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:50,380 York but let me give you one of the 1269 00:57:55,260 --> 00:57:52,450 mysteries here New York City is easy 1270 00:57:57,420 --> 00:57:55,270 because they got a big population but 1271 00:57:59,940 --> 00:57:57,430 amazing stuff everybody says New York 1272 00:58:03,000 --> 00:57:59,950 City is tops in thee they are and they 1273 00:58:06,450 --> 00:58:03,010 aren't okay if you work the numbers back 1274 00:58:08,490 --> 00:58:06,460 against the size of the population there 1275 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:08,500 are other counties in your state by 1276 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:10,930 population that have had more sightings 1277 00:58:16,650 --> 00:58:14,650 than they do per person okay okay now 1278 00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:16,660 let's go to Rochester New York up there 1279 00:58:22,050 --> 00:58:18,880 right there on Lake Ontario mm-hmm a 1280 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:22,060 similar phenomena that we saw with with 1281 00:58:27,690 --> 00:58:25,570 Erie County they have like this 282 1282 00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:27,700 sightings over 14 years in the hole all 1283 00:58:32,099 --> 00:58:29,410 the other cat all the other eight 1284 00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:32,109 counties in that district average maybe 1285 00:58:40,020 --> 00:58:36,910 about 20 over the 20 for the 20 year for 1286 00:58:41,580 --> 00:58:40,030 the 14 year period I've had several 1287 00:58:43,950 --> 00:58:41,590 you'll from New York State you'll follow 1288 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:43,960 just look at that chart and say my god 1289 00:58:49,859 --> 00:58:46,210 maybe there's an onlay con Theriault 1290 00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:49,869 effect that we never knew about mm-hmm 1291 00:58:56,220 --> 00:58:53,940 and so that's something to be considered 1292 00:58:58,140 --> 00:58:56,230 but you want to know about New York City 1293 00:58:59,580 --> 00:58:58,150 okay no I don't have to jump I don't 1294 00:59:01,440 --> 00:58:59,590 have to jump there because up I 1295 00:59:04,050 --> 00:59:01,450 remembered there was sightings out in 1296 00:59:04,590 --> 00:59:04,060 Long Island - so long island well 1297 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:04,600 actually 1298 00:59:10,650 --> 00:59:07,450 Long Island is is the if the 1299 00:59:12,150 --> 00:59:10,660 heavy-hitter it is yeah I mean let me 1300 00:59:14,140 --> 00:59:12,160 give you let me give you the Hudson 1301 00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:14,150 Valley and capital district 1302 00:59:19,390 --> 00:59:16,640 New York State's capital is Albany New 1303 00:59:21,430 --> 00:59:19,400 York way up on the Hudson about middle 1304 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:21,440 of the state okay 1305 00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:23,690 they've got a huge number for working 1306 00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:26,210 years 173 and the rest of the counties 1307 00:59:33,690 --> 00:59:28,910 are down there in about 30th 30 per 1308 00:59:39,069 --> 00:59:35,920 Westchester County where a lot of the 1309 00:59:40,180 --> 00:59:39,079 UFO sightings were not Westchester 1310 00:59:42,210 --> 00:59:40,190 County if you're getting down there 1311 00:59:44,140 --> 00:59:42,220 where whitley strieber had you know 1312 00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:44,150 communion and all that kind of thing 1313 00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:46,010 you're down in that general area 1314 00:59:51,069 --> 00:59:48,559 Westchester County they had something in 1315 00:59:54,190 --> 00:59:51,079 the ballpark of 211 for the 14 year 1316 00:59:59,019 --> 00:59:54,200 period which is a lot Orange County 1317 01:00:02,140 --> 00:59:59,029 where Pine Bush is logged 158 so I 1318 01:00:04,089 --> 01:00:02,150 finally pulled up a county map and right 1319 01:00:05,650 --> 01:00:04,099 and I'd like to go over that with you 1320 01:00:07,870 --> 01:00:05,660 but we're at the top of the hour we take 1321 01:00:33,660 --> 01:00:07,880 a quick music break hang in everyone 1322 01:00:40,209 --> 01:00:35,799 all right we're back and we're talking 1323 01:00:43,479 --> 01:00:40,219 live to Cheryl Costa and anyone can jump 1324 01:00:46,029 --> 01:00:43,489 in the chat room or you can actually 1325 01:00:48,339 --> 01:00:46,039 call in at six oh three nine six seven 1326 01:00:50,109 --> 01:00:48,349 four OH three oh just let you know 1327 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:50,119 Cheryl we have a lot of listeners but 1328 01:00:55,140 --> 01:00:51,890 not too many people call in most people 1329 01:00:58,599 --> 01:00:55,150 will go you know in the chat room and 1330 01:01:00,969 --> 01:00:58,609 pose a few questions we do have one up 1331 01:01:03,219 --> 01:01:00,979 there for you but I do want to finish 1332 01:01:05,739 --> 01:01:03,229 this conversation in the different 1333 01:01:07,870 --> 01:01:05,749 counties so now that I have my county 1334 01:01:10,179 --> 01:01:07,880 map yep 1335 01:01:13,170 --> 01:01:10,189 so you said Long Island right off the 1336 01:01:15,209 --> 01:01:13,180 bat you said that's a heavy hitter yes 1337 01:01:20,679 --> 01:01:15,219 that church 1338 01:01:22,630 --> 01:01:20,689 Long Island has two counties Nassau and 1339 01:01:25,029 --> 01:01:22,640 Suffolk okay 1340 01:01:28,900 --> 01:01:25,039 in the 14-year period we were sampling 1341 01:01:30,959 --> 01:01:28,910 1999 to 2014 actually it's a 15-year 1342 01:01:33,579 --> 01:01:30,969 window 1343 01:01:37,749 --> 01:01:33,589 Nassau which is closer to New York City 1344 01:01:40,870 --> 01:01:37,759 had 286 sightings this is combined eight 1345 01:01:46,630 --> 01:01:40,880 of most national UFO and MUFON data 1346 01:01:51,130 --> 01:01:46,640 combined data and Suffolk County had 541 1347 01:01:53,979 --> 01:01:51,140 Wow and this big that is huge it's the 1348 01:01:57,219 --> 01:01:53,989 biggest in the state now when you were 1349 01:01:59,559 --> 01:01:57,229 going through all this data did you see 1350 01:02:03,429 --> 01:01:59,569 anything that made any sense in any type 1351 01:02:07,059 --> 01:02:03,439 of way like where body of water was say 1352 01:02:10,449 --> 01:02:07,069 the ocean or you mentioned the lakes did 1353 01:02:14,439 --> 01:02:10,459 you see any like counties that had 1354 01:02:16,689 --> 01:02:14,449 similar things going on that you could 1355 01:02:19,449 --> 01:02:16,699 connect the dots and see why there were 1356 01:02:22,419 --> 01:02:19,459 so many sightings hotspots Oh nope not 1357 01:02:25,870 --> 01:02:22,429 at all mm-hmm I pulled my hair out for 1358 01:02:28,989 --> 01:02:25,880 three months and other people look at it 1359 01:02:30,999 --> 01:02:28,999 I shared PDF charts with some of the 1360 01:02:34,439 --> 01:02:31,009 other ufo-ologists everybody was pulling 1361 01:02:36,220 --> 01:02:34,449 their hair up nothing nothing worked 1362 01:02:39,819 --> 01:02:36,230 then I got a whole 1363 01:02:41,740 --> 01:02:39,829 of Ben moss I met him at the he's a 1364 01:02:45,550 --> 01:02:41,750 move-on guy people see him on hangar 1 1365 01:02:49,450 --> 01:02:45,560 he's the chief MUFON investigator for 1366 01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:49,460 state of Virginia mm-hmm in fact I rode 1367 01:02:53,319 --> 01:02:51,170 the shuttle bus in from the airport to 1368 01:02:55,319 --> 01:02:53,329 go to the International Foundation of 1369 01:03:00,310 --> 01:02:55,329 the International UFO Congress 1370 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:00,320 conference and him and I got to be we be 1371 01:03:05,620 --> 01:03:03,410 sure to drink or two and I called him up 1372 01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:05,630 and said hey Ben I got a problem here 1373 01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:07,280 you know something's down to chart you 1374 01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:08,570 looked at it I told him all the 1375 01:03:14,020 --> 01:03:10,400 different things we looked at nothing 1376 01:03:18,329 --> 01:03:14,030 nothing nothing lined up he said ask me 1377 01:03:23,050 --> 01:03:18,339 if I could find a map of ancient tribal 1378 01:03:26,770 --> 01:03:23,060 land I did a little research found 1379 01:03:30,490 --> 01:03:26,780 something we overload overlaid our our 1380 01:03:32,260 --> 01:03:30,500 sighting chart of you know you know they 1381 01:03:34,420 --> 01:03:32,270 basically looked like little big stars 1382 01:03:38,530 --> 01:03:34,430 where they where all the hot spots were 1383 01:03:44,589 --> 01:03:38,540 and it lined up over top of all of the 1384 01:03:47,020 --> 01:03:44,599 ancient Native American territories Wow 1385 01:03:50,980 --> 01:03:47,030 so that is the only thing we could 1386 01:03:53,859 --> 01:03:50,990 correlate now that said I have to tell 1387 01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:53,869 you what my science librarian spouse has 1388 01:04:04,390 --> 01:03:57,200 to say correlation does not necessarily 1389 01:04:06,579 --> 01:04:04,400 mean causality but it was it that was 1390 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:06,589 the only thing that we found that 1391 01:04:12,329 --> 01:04:09,290 correlated consistently the only other 1392 01:04:15,460 --> 01:04:12,339 thing that was maybe somewhat correlated 1393 01:04:19,089 --> 01:04:15,470 was yes if you looked at all the stars 1394 01:04:22,990 --> 01:04:19,099 overtop of a blank map of New York State 1395 01:04:25,930 --> 01:04:23,000 it looked like it followed across the 1396 01:04:28,030 --> 01:04:25,940 HUD across the Erie Canal from Buffalo 1397 01:04:28,540 --> 01:04:28,040 all the way to Albany and all the way 1398 01:04:30,910 --> 01:04:28,550 down 1399 01:04:32,859 --> 01:04:30,920 such and it on first glance it looked 1400 01:04:37,390 --> 01:04:32,869 like it was following the population 1401 01:04:40,510 --> 01:04:37,400 centers but not completely there were 1402 01:04:42,670 --> 01:04:40,520 counties that were off by themselves off 1403 01:04:44,620 --> 01:04:42,680 the main track of things not on the New 1404 01:04:48,849 --> 01:04:44,630 York State Thruway not on the Erie Canal 1405 01:04:50,050 --> 01:04:48,859 that had heavy-hitter numbers and for 1406 01:04:53,710 --> 01:04:50,060 that matter so was 1407 01:04:55,870 --> 01:04:53,720 so was a Long Island they hit two of the 1408 01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:55,880 highest months of sightings and they 1409 01:04:59,079 --> 01:04:57,920 weren't weren't near one of these things 1410 01:05:02,609 --> 01:04:59,089 in fact they've got an actually 1411 01:05:06,099 --> 01:05:02,619 relatively low population per sighting 1412 01:05:07,390 --> 01:05:06,109 than any place in New York State I was 1413 01:05:11,530 --> 01:05:07,400 kind of surprised I was out in Long 1414 01:05:15,089 --> 01:05:11,540 Island just a few weeks ago and and 1415 01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:15,099 drove right out to the east I believe I 1416 01:05:23,530 --> 01:05:19,130 do you happen to have the live show on 1417 01:05:25,839 --> 01:05:23,540 your computer I'm getting feedback no I 1418 01:05:27,370 --> 01:05:25,849 don't okay it's I'm just hearing 1419 01:05:29,710 --> 01:05:27,380 feedback I don't know if it might maybe 1420 01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:29,720 coming through your phone it might be 1421 01:05:34,660 --> 01:05:31,760 bouncing off my wall I don't know 1422 01:05:36,250 --> 01:05:34,670 yeah I'll get to I'll get to buy some 1423 01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:36,260 furniture real suck up some of the 1424 01:05:42,970 --> 01:05:37,210 bounce 1425 01:05:45,099 --> 01:05:42,980 sorry about that listener okay so you 1426 01:05:46,270 --> 01:05:45,109 know I lost my train of thought that's 1427 01:05:49,030 --> 01:05:46,280 terrible 1428 01:05:50,980 --> 01:05:49,040 what about someplace you were traveling 1429 01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:50,990 oh yeah yeah I was out in Long Island 1430 01:05:59,260 --> 01:05:57,530 East and went to take the ferry north we 1431 01:06:00,490 --> 01:05:59,270 have a call coming in up I just missed 1432 01:06:03,970 --> 01:06:00,500 the call sorry 1433 01:06:06,579 --> 01:06:03,980 caller if you can hear me please try to 1434 01:06:11,770 --> 01:06:06,589 call back I just missed your call sorry 1435 01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:11,780 about that please try again okay so I 1436 01:06:16,750 --> 01:06:14,329 was traveling out to take the ferry and 1437 01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:16,760 I noticed there was there was a lot of 1438 01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:19,250 land you know I always thought it was 1439 01:06:25,210 --> 01:06:21,410 like heavily populated but it's not out 1440 01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:25,220 toward the east so it's pretty raw out 1441 01:06:30,220 --> 01:06:28,250 there really is hmm which really 1442 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:30,230 surprised me because it's not that many 1443 01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:33,290 hours away from New York City and you 1444 01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:36,079 just expect that people would populate 1445 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:42,290 it so I'm just gonna say again sorry 1446 01:06:50,130 --> 01:06:44,450 missed your call caller you can try 1447 01:06:54,609 --> 01:06:50,140 again 603 nine six seven here it is 1448 01:06:56,559 --> 01:06:54,619 hello there caller hi it's Chris in 1449 01:06:58,480 --> 01:06:56,569 Pennsylvania and I just wanted to throw 1450 01:07:00,990 --> 01:06:58,490 something out there you guys were 1451 01:07:05,010 --> 01:07:01,000 talking about sightings in counties that 1452 01:07:07,690 --> 01:07:05,020 didn't necessarily have a high 1453 01:07:10,270 --> 01:07:07,700 population and I was wondering if you 1454 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:10,280 took into consideration people who live 1455 01:07:14,950 --> 01:07:12,530 in the city primarily who have never 1456 01:07:18,100 --> 01:07:14,960 been upstate where there's no light 1457 01:07:21,460 --> 01:07:18,110 pollution maybe in awe of all the stars 1458 01:07:23,950 --> 01:07:21,470 that you can see in the sky it's it's 1459 01:07:25,870 --> 01:07:23,960 such a huge contrast that that may I 1460 01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:25,880 don't know that they caused some people 1461 01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:28,130 to the port sightings then they're just 1462 01:07:36,250 --> 01:07:32,290 seeing stars that never saw before hmm 1463 01:07:40,530 --> 01:07:36,260 that's possible that is possible but 1464 01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:40,540 amazingly enough New York City averages 1465 01:07:46,270 --> 01:07:43,280 they average a lot of sightings in fact 1466 01:07:48,910 --> 01:07:46,280 the raw numbers they some it appears 1467 01:07:50,890 --> 01:07:48,920 like they're the number one place for 1468 01:07:54,490 --> 01:07:50,900 sightings in New York State if you 1469 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:54,500 combine all five boroughs of New York 1470 01:07:59,770 --> 01:07:56,810 said all five channels of New York City 1471 01:08:02,010 --> 01:07:59,780 together it looks like a huge number but 1472 01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:02,020 if you break it down by Counting the 1473 01:08:08,620 --> 01:08:05,810 giving example New York County of New 1474 01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:08,630 York of New York City actually has less 1475 01:08:14,410 --> 01:08:12,650 sightings than Albany New York does Wow 1476 01:08:17,620 --> 01:08:14,420 that's surprising you know with all the 1477 01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:17,630 like Aleutian yeah that's what's 1478 01:08:21,999 --> 01:08:19,370 interesting that they have some rather 1479 01:08:25,780 --> 01:08:22,009 bizarre sightings down there you know 1480 01:08:28,690 --> 01:08:25,790 it's almost as if the the the UFOs are 1481 01:08:31,980 --> 01:08:28,700 coming there to hang out because there 1482 01:08:35,190 --> 01:08:31,990 are bizarre people there or whatever 1483 01:08:38,440 --> 01:08:35,200 it's a cosmopolitan place as they say 1484 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:38,450 but that people have reported something 1485 01:08:44,110 --> 01:08:41,210 new amazing sightings where people would 1486 01:08:45,610 --> 01:08:44,120 see a light come in from the ocean and 1487 01:08:47,230 --> 01:08:45,620 they thought it was an airplane and then 1488 01:08:49,059 --> 01:08:47,240 the next thing you know they they saw it 1489 01:08:51,070 --> 01:08:49,069 looked like it went down hovered and 1490 01:08:54,370 --> 01:08:51,080 went down into Central Park things like 1491 01:08:57,010 --> 01:08:54,380 that you know there's a number of 1492 01:09:02,950 --> 01:08:57,020 airports right there you know right 1493 01:09:06,249 --> 01:09:02,960 around New York City people may be 1494 01:09:07,900 --> 01:09:06,259 seeing landing lights that is a that you 1495 01:09:10,030 --> 01:09:07,910 do hear about that the landing lights 1496 01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:10,040 even off a Long Island I think I've 1497 01:09:15,460 --> 01:09:13,279 heard that people can you know they see 1498 01:09:17,440 --> 01:09:15,470 the light coming in really bright bright 1499 01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:17,450 coming in and it's just patterns 1500 01:09:24,340 --> 01:09:21,410 of landing so I imagine there is some 1501 01:09:26,590 --> 01:09:24,350 portion of the sightings that's that's 1502 01:09:29,260 --> 01:09:26,600 just a guess oh well actually there's a 1503 01:09:31,450 --> 01:09:29,270 formula that you can crank the numbers 1504 01:09:35,980 --> 01:09:31,460 through this formula and it breaks it 1505 01:09:41,410 --> 01:09:35,990 down to like 3% are hoaxes 5% are crazy 1506 01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:41,420 people 30% are clouds birds you know 1507 01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:44,000 they've got this number but about almost 1508 01:09:52,140 --> 01:09:48,290 ufo-ologists hold that about 20% are the 1509 01:09:55,990 --> 01:09:52,150 are of the totally unexplained and 1510 01:09:58,000 --> 01:09:56,000 really really out there quality and in 1511 01:10:02,650 --> 01:09:58,010 the numbers we were working with with 1512 01:10:06,700 --> 01:10:02,660 this chart about 4647 sightings over 14 1513 01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:06,710 years or 15 years about 20% of that 1514 01:10:12,190 --> 01:10:09,890 falls into that category which is when 1515 01:10:15,790 --> 01:10:12,200 you think about it around coming up out 1516 01:10:18,010 --> 01:10:15,800 of almost a thousand sightings over 15 1517 01:10:21,190 --> 01:10:18,020 year window are of the unexplained 1518 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:21,200 variety mm-hmm is that it Kris you all 1519 01:10:31,690 --> 01:10:28,010 set yeah thanks for calling in okay all 1520 01:10:35,410 --> 01:10:31,700 right so the question we had up on the 1521 01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:35,420 message board for you Cheryl was are you 1522 01:10:44,050 --> 01:10:41,930 also an experiencer have you had any 1523 01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:44,060 abduction accounts that's what someone's 1524 01:10:52,090 --> 01:10:49,130 asking on the message board that's 1525 01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:52,100 really personal information to ask okay 1526 01:10:59,860 --> 01:10:57,410 um so something information if I was or 1527 01:11:03,010 --> 01:10:59,870 wasn't if I'm not I I have had the 1528 01:11:06,210 --> 01:11:03,020 opportunity to sit with the experiencers 1529 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:06,220 and I've heard some very very very 1530 01:11:12,910 --> 01:11:10,970 amazing accounts but I gave them my word 1531 01:11:15,010 --> 01:11:12,920 I would not talk about it and I would 1532 01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:15,020 not write about it there was the only 1533 01:11:19,180 --> 01:11:17,090 condition was the only way I could make 1534 01:11:21,070 --> 01:11:19,190 a condition that I could come in and sit 1535 01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:21,080 in with them well I'll give you a flavor 1536 01:11:25,630 --> 01:11:22,640 or something with it when we were at the 1537 01:11:27,250 --> 01:11:25,640 convention they had restriction the 1538 01:11:29,170 --> 01:11:27,260 press couldn't come in but like I said I 1539 01:11:31,300 --> 01:11:29,180 made an arrangement with them that I 1540 01:11:33,550 --> 01:11:31,310 would just come in and observe 1541 01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:33,560 but I would not write about it oh okay 1542 01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:35,330 no this is what my press pass away I 1543 01:11:40,030 --> 01:11:37,610 expected go in and find maybe 15 20 1544 01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:40,040 maybe 50 people in there there was close 1545 01:11:44,980 --> 01:11:43,130 to 200 people in there sat right Wow 1546 01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:44,990 now the person was asking them that on 1547 01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:49,010 the message board if you talk about 1548 01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:53,210 yourself being an experiencer that was